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Homeowner Forum / Rural Living / February 2010Dissing the Dalai Lama
Obama meets him in the Map Room, not the Oval Office, and when the meeting is over, ushers him out the BACK DOOR of the White House. The "honeymoon" is over. Whereas decent people everywhere have been giving this President the benefit of the doubt, continuing to like the man, despite despising his agenda, he has now made any further such affection difficult to the point of being humanly impossible. Is is hard to imagine what sort of an "American" could possibly countenance such disgraceful, spineless kow-towing to the forces of oppression and tyranny in this world. If the United States is not all about stepping forward against just that, then the United States is about nothing. It is embarrassing to have such a toady, such an utter quisling as the chief representative of this country, and the cheeks of every American should be burning with shame. Thankfully, now that it is possible to see the complete lack of substance in Obama the man, there should no longer be any question about his policies and his agenda: there is nothing respectable or responsible or brave or basically American about any of it. The cost of a pack of cigarettes has gone up, not only double, but that again by half to fund this tyrant's "healthcare" agenda, and it is driving the working class into poverty and crime. Is it this which has the Tea Party people comparing him to Hitler? Or is it his intention to decide for people what they will have under the hoods of their pickup trucks? Will he make it impossible for your average country dweller to drive home with a load of fire-wood, without burning up his engine, or to drive in the mountains, plow the snow from a long driveway? He's poking his nose into the people's business way in deep where a spoiled little city boy's nose doesn't belong. Yup. The honeymoon is OVER! -- JM http://groups.google.com/group/readers-round-table http://whosenose.blogspot.com http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com > Obama meets him in the Map Room, not the Oval Office, and when the > meeting is over, ushers him out the BACK DOOR of the White House. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Yup. The honeymoon is OVER! any remarks from the triangle.general resident obama lover? > > Obama meets him in the Map Room, not the Oval Office, and when the > > meeting is over, ushers him out the BACK DOOR of the White House. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > any remarks from the triangle.general resident obama lover? Does anyone really care how much the Dali Lama pays for cigarettes? This moron seems to think the only way to feed his addiction is to buy tobacco. It apparently hasn't occurred to him that tobacco is a PLANT, that is legal to grow in all 50 states. Burley will make a crop anywhere. Personally, I favor a straight carbon tax instead of that moronic cap and trade. Cap and trade is too easy to game. Just tax crude oil so gas sells for $3 a gallon, and increase the tax $0.50 a year for 10 years. As soon as people know gas will cost $8 a gallon in 2020, they will make some conservation decisions. Meanwhile, the revenues will do a lot to bring down the budget deficit. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net --- . > --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net --- Hope you like to eat rocks Larry, cause once fuel reaches $8 the cost of food will be beyond the reach of average Americans. So will the price of everything else that depends on transport anywhere in the USA. Likewise those who still heat with oil will get mighty cold during the winter. >. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Likewise those who still heat with oil will get mighty cold during the >winter. That's not really true. My gas and deisel are cheap compared to domestic, and many places (like the UK) are close enough to $8 a gallon now for domestic consumption. And of course food is realy cheap in the US. >> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net --- > > Hope you like to eat rocks Larry, cause once fuel reaches $8 the cost of > food will be beyond the reach of average Americans. So will the price of > everything else that depends on transport anywhere in the USA. Likewise > those who still heat with oil will get mighty cold during the winter. Are there still Americans who heat their houses using oil and if so why? The use of oil for heating seems to seems to have gone out of fashion about 2 decades ago in other parts of the western world. >>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net --- >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Are there still Americans who heat their houses using oil and if so why? I think use of #2 oil is most common in the North East US. The options here may be oil, natural gas, propane, and coal. There is no local gas pipeline in my area, so it's not available. Also, the cost of natural gas has historically been all over the place - and there have been periods of shortage when the distributors wouldn't accept new customers. So the advantage of oil has been that, given an adequate tank, a winter's worth can be stored at ones home. Propane has had no significant cost advantage, particularly when the cost of a new furnace is factored in. I happen to live where anthracite coal is still available, but again, there can be shortages. And of course the cost of a coal furnace is significantly more, plus there needs to be a place to store the coal. I don't consider electricity a practical option here because of the cost. And the climate and cost of installation weigh against a heat pump. Note that these observations are for existing construction. > The use of oil for heating seems to seems to have gone out of fashion > about 2 decades ago in other parts of the western world. Which is fine as long as Russia doesn't decide to shut off the gas supply ... and/or run the price up. >>>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net --- >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > cost. And the climate and cost of installation weigh against a heat > pump. So you're saying it's about cost, ease of access and supply. Is any sense of growing concern about heating with oil? > Note that these observations are for existing construction. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Which is fine as long as Russia doesn't decide to shut off the gas > supply ... and/or run the price up. Russia on supplies part of western Europe which is only a part of the western world. > "Ann" <nntpmail@afsetc.com> wrote in message <...> > So you're saying it's about cost, ease of access and supply. More like possibility of access than ease. > Is any sense of growing concern about heating with oil? Sure, but I think there is more concern about the cost of gasoline, The thing about switching heating fuel based on cost is that when the cost of one type goes up, the cost of other types also tend to. This is simply because the suppliers can get the higher price - not because of increased cost of production. >> Note that these observations are for existing construction. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Russia on supplies part of western Europe which is only a part of the > western world. Understood. And, most of Eastern Europe isn't in a position to get in a bidding war with Western Europe. But, still, wouldn't the price of gas increase in Western Europe? Or are there price controls? "Ann" <nntpmail@afsetc.com> wrote in message >> "Ann" <nntpmail@afsetc.com> wrote in message > <...> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > bidding war with Western Europe. But, still, wouldn't the price of gas > increase in Western Europe? Or are there price controls? I don't know. Perhaps someone in Europe might answer. >> "Ann" <nntpmail@afsetc.com> wrote in message > <...> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > because the suppliers can get the higher price - not because of increased > cost of production. Economic principle of substitution. Large users of fossil fuels can often use gas, oil, or even coal easier than homeowners and have a greater affect on the markets. >>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net --- >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Are there still Americans who heat their houses using oil and if so why? Ummm... because they have oil-fired furances and boilers ? >The use of oil for heating seems to seems to have gone out of fashion about >2 decades ago in other parts of the western world. Cheaper than electric, for one thing. About the same cost as LP. Not everyone has NG available. Not everyone uses a freakin' fireplace :-)  SignatureClick here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/ Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm [I snipped triangle.general because it seems they have even more net-nuts than we have at misc.rural] >>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net --- >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Are there still Americans who heat their houses using oil and if so why? More than 1/2 according to this site; http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/heating_broch ure/heatbro.htm Or 7% if you believe these folks; http://www.energytomorrow.org/Heating_Oil_Prices.aspx "Only 7 percent of U.S. households depend on heating oil for winter fuel and most of these households are in the Northeast, where 31 percent of households use heating oil as their primary space heating fuel. " Part of that disparity might be the use of the term 'household'. An apartment building might contain thousands of households- and will likely be heated by natural gas. Few rural folks have that option. Because it is the least expensive & most readily available option in most cases. Natural gas is cheaper [this year] but isn't available to a majority of folks outside of cities. My bottled gas has averaged $3.38/gal so far this year-- Oil $2.79/gal. Propane is a little more costly this year-- but was a good option for a few years. Coal is hard to come by. wood, if you need to buy it, costs more than oil & is harder to use. Except for the Tennessee Valley, electricity is more expensive by a factor of 2 or 3 in much of the rest of the country. My reasons for using oil; Clean, Cheap, furnaces simple enough to fix yourself. [cleaner than it once was- not as cheap as it once was- not quite as easy to fix/tune by homeowner, but still doable] >The use of oil for heating seems to seems to have gone out of fashion about >2 decades ago in other parts of the western world. Different strokes, eh? So what does your part of the world use & why? Jim > [I snipped triangle.general because it seems they have even more > net-nuts than we have at misc.rural] [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > to a majority of folks outside of cities. My bottled gas has averaged > $3.38/gal so far this year-- Oil $2.79/gal. The usual "rules" on #2 oil prices (summer fill best price) don't apply here anymore. For a couple years I've been waiting until December. This winter it was 2.39 (10 day cash). For the first time since prices started escalating it cost less than the gasoline pump price. > Propane is a little more costly this year-- but was a good option for a > few years. Coal is hard to come by. wood, if you need to buy it, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > once was- not as cheap as it once was- not quite as easy to fix/tune by > homeowner, but still doable] Admittedly it doesn't happen that often, but gas pipelines do on occasion leak, resulting in buildings being reduced to kindling and/or masonry chips and/or leaving a large hole in the ground. A family friend was killed by a gas explosion when I was a kid and the memory has stuck with me. When my ex and I bought a house that had gas for cooking and the water heater, there was a distinct gas (mercaptan) odor at the meter in the basement. The gas company passed it off as minor (without checking), but did replace the meter after "negotiations". >>The use of oil for heating seems to seems to have gone out of fashion >>about 2 decades ago in other parts of the western world. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jim > [I snipped triangle.general because it seems they have even more > net-nuts than we have at misc.rural] [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > Different strokes, eh? So what does your part of the world use & > why? I don't know anyone who uses oil. We moved here about 18 years ago and there was a tank of oil here then so we used up and then ripped out the heater. Even that long ago it was considered to be past its time. We use wood. Others use wood, LPG or electricity. Electricity seems to be becoming more popular although I'm not sure why given the growing environmental concerns about that. > I don't know anyone who uses oil. We moved here about 18 years ago and > there was a tank of oil here then so we used up and then ripped out the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > becoming more popular although I'm not sure why given the growing > environmental concerns about that. Electric heat is clean, efficient, convenient, safe and environmentally more controllable at the source than having thousands of wood burners pumping smoke into the air. Air quality is immensly improved over what it was back in the 1800's or early 1900's when coal was burned in nearly every home & business and every industry ran their own in house power plants on coal. At least with a central plant its easier to enforce steps to clean up the exhaust. Wood furnaces that are popular around here are filthy smoke belching machines. > > I don't know anyone who uses oil. We moved here about 18 years ago and > > there was a tank of oil here then so we used up and then ripped out the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > steps to clean up the exhaust. Wood furnaces that are popular around > here are filthy smoke belching machines. Look at Catalytic Converter SignatureGarden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA http://www.sheep.com/sounds/baasheep1.wav > > > I don't know anyone who uses oil. We moved here about 18 years ago and > > > there was a tank of oil here then so we used up and then ripped out the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Look at Catalytic Converter http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=Catalytic+Conve rter&as_q=wood&btnG=Search%C2%A0within%C2%A0results May be more on the money SignatureGarden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA http://www.sheep.com/sounds/baasheep1.wav >> I don't know anyone who uses oil. We moved here about 18 years ago and >> there was a tank of oil here then so we used up and then ripped out the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > to clean up the exhaust. Wood furnaces that are popular around here are > filthy smoke belching machines. Coal is not wood. Wood used for heating produces one tenth as much greenhouse gases as electricity. Wood is the only renewable, and therefore sustainable, energy source so far mentioned in this thread. http://rocketscience2.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/firewood-web.pdf -snip- >I don't know anyone who uses oil. We moved here about 18 years ago and >there was a tank of oil here then so we used up and then ripped out the >heater. Even that long ago it was considered to be past its time. Are we talking about the same thing? #2 Fuel oil [essentially diesel fuel without color added]- in a thermostatically controlled furnace that pumps oil under pressure, mixes it with air and heats either air or water which deliver heat to the rooms? Or do you mean kerosene in a pot-burner? That is what we would call [in the NE US, anyway] a "heater" as opposed to a "furnace". Some folks use space heaters like that- but not common in my neck of the woods. OTOH- I'd guess 3/4 of the folks in rural areas use oil furnaces. Many supplement with wood, pellets, corn, or LPG heaters. Another variable is how much heat you need. We have about 6000 heating degree days here. If I was living in a much warmer climate I might prefer a heater for the odd day that I need heat. I can't do the conversion in my head- but I note that Australia only has about 500 heating degree days down in their coolest area. >We use wood. Which we would consider the dirtiest popular choice. [and in my case, also the most expensive & most labor intensive] Coal would be dirtier but it isn't available in most areas. >Others use wood, LPG or electricity. Electricity seems to be >becoming more popular although I'm not sure why given the growing >environmental concerns about that. Electricity has the *possibility* of being the greenest choice-- if not the cheapest. Jim > -snip- >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Are we talking about the same thing? I doubt it. #2 Fuel oil [essentially diesel > fuel without color added]- in a thermostatically controlled furnace > that pumps oil under pressure, mixes it with air and heats either air > or water which deliver heat to the rooms? Whatever the technical mechanism for delivering the heat, it's the burning of oil based fossil fuel I'm asking about. > Or do you mean kerosene in a pot-burner? I don't know what that is. That is what we would call > [in the NE US, anyway] a "heater" as opposed to a "furnace". Some > folks use space heaters like that- but not common in my neck of the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I can't do the conversion in my head- but I note that Australia only > has about 500 heating degree days down in their coolest area. That's an interesting way to describe heating needs. It's not something we use here. It rather reminds me of the cooling needs for growing apples though. Do you have a cite for that as I'd like to read up on it. >>We use wood. > > Which we would consider the dirtiest popular choice. [and in my case, > also the most expensive & most labor intensive] Coal would be dirtier > but it isn't available in most areas. Well it is and it isn't. It is for the user who has to manage it, as opposed to just throwing a switch. It could also be so if the heater is not efficient but these days they are getting pretty good at burning cleaner than in the 'olden days'. Coal is not clean at all and Aus is still using masses of it - most of our electricity generation comes from coal. >>Others use wood, LPG or electricity. Electricity seems to be >>becoming more popular although I'm not sure why given the growing >>environmental concerns about that. > > Electricity has the *possibility* of being the greenest choice-- if > not the cheapest. But that 'possibility' would only be achieved if it all come from wind power/solar (or similar) and then if you factor in production of the wind turbines/solar cells etc...... I think the world still has a very long way to go before we get to anything really green, but electricity is still a long way from being very green exccept in terms of how many emissions are put out within the environment at the end users own home - they're just emitted elsewhere. >> -snip- >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Whatever the technical mechanism for delivering the heat, it's the burning >of oil based fossil fuel I'm asking about. But the mechanism is the most important part. If there are 100 BTU's in a unit and 60 of them are wasted or become pollution- then the same fuel has a wide variance of environmental friendliness. >> Or do you mean kerosene in a pot-burner? > >I don't know what that is. A space heater- no pump- no air mixture- no delivery of heat to other rooms except by natural convection. Sometimes they use a wick. I haven't seen a true 'pot-burner'- kero dripping into a burning 'pot'- in years, but we used them when I was a kid. The kitchen was 90degrees. The next room 70. the bedrooms 50 or less. By far the least efficient way to burn any fossil fuel. -snip- >> Another variable is how much heat you need. We have about 6000 >> heating degree days here. If I was living in a much warmer climate I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >use here. It rather reminds me of the cooling needs for growing apples >though. Do you have a cite for that as I'd like to read up on it. Here's the Wikipedia entry on degree days http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heating_degree_day The conversion is simpler than I imagined- To convert ºF HDD to ºC HDD: ºC HDD = (5/9) x (ºF HDD) To convert ºC HDD to ºF HDD: ºF HDD = (9/5) x (ºC HDD And here are Australia's http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/climate_averages/degree-days/index.jsp So the coldest part of Australia has 500 HDD X 9/5= 900HDD About equal to Los Angeles California or Corpus Christie, Texas[in a normal year]. So your heating needs are *way* different from 90% of the US. Where I live the average first frost is mid September- and it might frost as late as May 30. We expect frozen ground Oct-Mid-April. -snip- >Well it is and it isn't. It is for the user who has to manage it, as >opposed to just throwing a switch. It could also be so if the heater is not >efficient but these days they are getting pretty good at burning cleaner >than in the 'olden days'. Coal is not clean at all and Aus is still using >masses of it - most of our electricity generation comes from coal. I am still hopeful that some genius will come up with a clean-coal technology so this half of the world can hold the energy purse-strings for a century or so. In the US the places that would be most helped by a coal industry are many of the poorest areas today. -snip- Jim >>Whatever the technical mechanism for delivering the heat, it's the burning >>of oil based fossil fuel I'm asking about. > > But the mechanism is the most important part. If there are 100 > BTU's in a unit and 60 of them are wasted or become pollution- then > the same fuel has a wide variance of environmental friendliness. Environmental friendliness, yes, but I started out asking about the use (for heating) of an increasing scarce and increasingly expensive substance called oil. It's not what form it comes in or how its burned that I'm trying to get a grasp on, nor is it really about it's environmental friendliness although I've muddled the waters by mentioning that more than once. I was really just curious as to what was used for heating in the US. I've seen some amazing wood burning boilers in US mags and am pea green with envy that they aren't available here. given how cold most of the US is, then they'd be great in my cold climate. >>> Or do you mean kerosene in a pot-burner? >> >>I don't know what that is. > > A space heater- no pump- no air mixture- no delivery of heat to other > rooms except by natural convection. Sometimes they use a wick. Ah. That is what we'd call a 'kerosene heater' (or a kero heater) and I dont' even know if they are still around. It'd be 40 years since I saw one of those. > -snip- >>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I live the average first frost is mid September- and it might frost as > late as May 30. We expect frozen ground Oct-Mid-April. We get frosts for 6 months of the year and in fact it could be a possibility at any time of the year, but we certainly don't get frozen ground or anything like hte ocld thta most of the US gets. > -snip- >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > for a century or so. In the US the places that would be most > helped by a coal industry are many of the poorest areas today. Yeah, our government keeps wittering on about clean coal technology too but I doubt that is going to happen any time soon (if at all). We too have huge amounts of it - China is buying ti tan also natural gass by the squillion tons lots from us. >> [I snipped triangle.general because it seems they have even more >> net-nuts than we have at misc.rural] [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > becoming more popular although I'm not sure why given the growing > environmental concerns about that. F What kinds of wood do you folks burn down there? Curious. I know Oak and Alder and various West Coast US stuff. Is it plentiful enough? Any wood "farms"? I remember the first wood farm I saw east of Seattle several years ago. Cottonwoods I believe. All beautifully cultivated rows. Probably for paper. Hadn't really thought of wood being a popular choice for you. Inquiring minds and all that. Doug in Fremont, Ca >>> fuel. " > F > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rows. Probably for paper. Hadn't really thought of wood being a popular > choice for you. Inquiring minds and all that. Doug in Fremont, Ca Here in Wisconsin we've been burning a mixture of hardwoods. Oak, Elm, Walnut mostly. >>>> fuel. " > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Here in Wisconsin we've been burning a mixture of hardwoods. Oak, Elm, > Walnut mostly. Wow. I assume none of it could be classed as furniture grade woods? I drool when I hear such names having made furniture in an earlier stage of my life. >>>>> fuel. " >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > drool when I hear such names having made furniture in an earlier stage of my > life. We cut trees up that have died on our woodlot. We don't cut live trees. The wood we use has been dead standing for a couple of years, and the bark is sloughing off before we take it down. Its already seasoned and ready to burn. It burns really hot with a nice smell to it. Very little soot or smut, and the chimney hardly ever needs cleaning. Yes you would drool over some of the red oak we have burned, likewise the elm. Both very hard and tight grained. The walnut generally doesn't die out very often as it seems more insect resistant. >> We use wood. Others use wood, LPG or electricity. Electricity seems to >> be becoming more popular although I'm not sure why given the growing [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Probably for paper. Hadn't really thought of wood being a popular choice > for you. Inquiring minds and all that. Doug in Fremont, Ca If you're in California then you'd know how well eucalypts burns. We burn mostly eucalpts but have recently also added very well seasoned Pinus radiata to the mix - I tend to use that mostly in my kitchen cooker which heats our water for the hydronic heating. Its fast and cheap as it's offcuts. Wood is still plentiful enough but of course wholsale clearing of land is not something that is done easily these days. Most farmers are planting trees because of the returns in production it gives to both livestock and crops/grazing. We do have wood farms but they are for lumber/Xmas trees/pulping/matches/paper and exports of various types. Increasinlgy I'm seeing reports about foreign buyers who use tree planting for carbon offsets, but I don't really know enough about that to comment other than to say I've seen reports about it. If we buy it wood, Himself likes to use Red Box (E. polyanthemos) and Yellow Box (E. melliodora). One of the local suppliers is a friend always stocks Ironbark and each year we have a ritual of going into his yard and asking for Red or Yellow Box and him saying that he only has Ironbark. One day he'll succumb and get what we'd like. When we've used trees from one of our farms they've been a mix. From our other farm we get Mountain Ash but here on this farm, I wouldn't know what they are as they've been long dead and it's only when they fall that we cut them up for domestic use. Standing they provide nesting habitat in hollows for parrots so they stay till they fall of lose a big branch. > [I snipped triangle.general because it seems they have even more > net-nuts than we have at misc.rural] the other day I noticed a friend being somewhat particular picking the cashews from the nut jar. His answer to my question was, he disliked some of the other kinds of nuts and wanted to avoid them. then he said after the cashews become difficult to find he'd be seeking the almonds. selective association... > Hope you like to eat rocks Larry, cause once fuel reaches $8 the cost of > food will be beyond the reach of average Americans. So will the price > of everything else that depends on transport anywhere in the USA. > Likewise those who still heat with oil will get mighty cold during the > winter. Food costs less than 10% of average US income. Historically, the average is a little over 30%. Certainly, there would have to be some adjustments in lifestyles. For one thing, people would have to learn to cook again. Taxing gasoline to $8 a gallon would just anticipate what is going to happen anyway. The dollar is going to crash. Crude oil will cost over $400 a barrel. When the crash hits, it's going to be really ugly. The whole country would be better off if it started weaning itself from oil imports right now. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net --- >> Hope you like to eat rocks Larry, cause once fuel reaches $8 the cost of >> food will be beyond the reach of average Americans. So will the price [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > adjustments in lifestyles. For one thing, people would have to learn to > cook again. Right on Larry! > Taxing gasoline to $8 a gallon would just anticipate what is going to > happen anyway. The dollar is going to crash. Crude oil will cost over > $400 a barrel. When the crash hits, it's going to be really ugly. The > whole country would be better off if it started weaning itself from oil > imports right now. Why do you say the (US?) dollar is going to crash? It hasn't so far and the US seems to be a basket case if compared to other economies. Our economy is strong and if you looked at the situation of both our countrys, our dollar should be higher than that of the US dollar but it isn't and never has been. But I agree with you on the situation with oil. It's really only a matter of time before that becomes a major issue and if the US is still using so much of it, that could be a real problem soon rather than later. > >> Hope you like to eat rocks Larry, cause once fuel reaches $8 the cost of > >> food will be beyond the reach of average Americans. So will the price [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Right on Larry! I was reading an article about the "new poor", the people who have lost their jobs and won't find another. One 57 year old woman was going to a food bank, and was thankful that this week there were no pinto beans. She didn't have any idea how to cook pinto beans. 57 years old, and she had 20 lbs of pinto beans at home with no idea what to do with them. Anybody that stupid deserves to go hungry. > > Taxing gasoline to $8 a gallon would just anticipate what is going to > > happen anyway. The dollar is going to crash. Crude oil will cost over [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > strong and if you looked at the situation of both our countrys, our dollar > should be higher than that of the US dollar but it isn't and never has been. The only reason the dollar hasn't crashed already is that we are living on the charity of other countries. China is single handedly holding up the value of the dollar by refusing to let the Renminbi float. If they are nice guys, they will just raise the Yuan slowly until we balance our trade with them. If they are not nice guys, they will start a war to drive us out of the Far East. All they would have to do to deprive us of the resources to fight a war is dump dollars and US bonds on the market, driving the value of the dollar to nothing and making it impossible for the USA to finance a war. They would whip our a.ses. We would be lucky not to end up a conquered nation. At the least, we would end up a second rate nation like Spain, making debt payments to the Chinese for a century. The US economy is not strong. It's a basket case. > But I agree with you on the situation with oil. It's really only a matter > of time before that becomes a major issue and if the US is still using so > much of it, that could be a real problem soon rather than later. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net --- > The only reason the dollar hasn't crashed already is that we are living > on the charity of other countries. China is single handedly holding up [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > The US economy is not strong. It's a basket case. To add to that. I just read that about a fourth of homeowners owe more on their mortgages than the house is worth. That will increase if interest rates rise. California is broke. Michigan is close, I guess. And our fearful leaders in Washington are creating money out of thin air. > To add to that. > I just read that about a fourth of homeowners owe more on their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And our fearful leaders in Washington are creating money out of thin > air. 2007 ARMs reset this year, and 80% of all ARMs written in 2007 are projected to default. 40% to 45% of all commercial mortgages are projected to default this year. Anyone who says the recession is over is just whistling in a graveyard. On Feb 24, 4:24 am, Dean Hoffman <dh0496@in#&ebr^as^#ka.com> wrote: > To add to that. > I just read that about a fourth of homeowners owe more on their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And our fearful leaders in Washington are creating money out of thin > air. 2007 ARMs reset this year, and 80% of all ARMs written in 2007 are projected to default. __________________________________ ARM is? I assume it's something, something Mortgage. > On Feb 24, 4:24 am, Dean Hoffman <dh0496@in#&ebr^as^#ka.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > __________________________________ > ARM is? I assume it's something, something Mortgage. adjustable rate mortgage. More good news. About 700 US banks are in trouble. That's the most since 1993. January new home sales are at their lowest seasonably adjusted level in the last half century. Besides that, I can't find my socks. >> On Feb 24, 4:24 am, Dean Hoffman <dh0496@in#&ebr^as^#ka.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >adjusted level in the last half century. Besides that, I can't find my >socks. That really socks. SignatureClick here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/ Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm >> On Feb 24, 4:24 am, Dean Hoffman <dh0496@in#&ebr^as^#ka.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> __________________________________ >> ARM is? I assume it's something, something Mortgage. > adjustable rate mortgage. Thanks Dean > More good news. About 700 US banks are in trouble. That's the most > since 1993. January new home sales are at their lowest seasonably > adjusted level in the last half century. Besides that, I can't find my > socks. :-((( I htink your socks are very small beer in comparison with the news about the banks. >>> On Feb 24, 4:24 am, Dean Hoffman <dh0496@in#&ebr^as^#ka.com> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > :-((( I htink your socks are very small beer in comparison with the news > about the banks. I'm almost in the geographic center of the U.S. Natural gas, propane, and electric heat are the main sources for home heating. Wood stoves were a hot item (pun alert) for awhile but people found out they require physical labor. A lot of towns won't allow propane tanks so that limits choices some. Natural gas prices for my house have ranged from about $49/month now to over $119/month a few years ago. I don't keep track of heating degree days so I can't say if it's price/ft3 or weather that is the biggest factor. There is a lot of coal in Wyoming but it goes to the electric power plants as far as I know. It's been years since a nuke plant has started up. It sounds like there are some new, safe technologies but people hear "nuclear" and hit the panic button. > On Feb 24, 4:24 am, Dean Hoffman <dh0496@in#&ebr^as^#ka.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > __________________________________ > ARM is? I assume it's something, something Mortgage. Adjustable Rate Mortgage. They suckered people in with an unrealistically low initial interest rate, on the terms that the lender gets to arbitrarily increase the mortgage in steps. The steps are usually limited to less than 5% a year, but the maximum allowed rate is normally huge. Rates can go down too, but the lender writes the standards, so rates almost always go up and almost never go down. Anyone buying in 2007 purchased during the lowest interest rates since WWII. The day the contract was signed, all parties knew that the rates would go up. Anyone dumb enough to sign an ARM is looking at their mortgage payments doubling this year. They can't refinance, because their home isn't worth anywhere near what they paid for it. Most of them (~80%) will just walk away, leaving the lender facing a 40% or 50% hit on the value of the loan. Banks are already avoiding foreclosures on delinquent mortgages because showing it on their books would force them into immediate bankruptcy. They are all hiding the problem and praying for a miracle. Fat chance. >> On Feb 24, 4:24 am, Dean Hoffman <dh0496@in#&ebr^as^#ka.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >would force them into immediate bankruptcy. They are all hiding the >problem and praying for a miracle. Fat chance. That's why we have an ObaMessiah ! :-) SignatureClick here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/ Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Anyone who says the recession is over is just whistling in a > graveyard. The FDIC just opened a big office in the Chicago metro area with several hundred employees. They did this in Nevada and California just before the first housing bubble caused some bank failures and a whole heckuva lot of foreclosures. Do you suppose this whole thing could be by intent??? I do. "Larry Caldwell" <Not@this.address> wrote in message > (FarmI) says... >> "Larry Caldwell" <Not@this.address> wrote in message Certainly, there would have to be some >> > adjustments in lifestyles. For one thing, people would have to learn >> > to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > had 20 lbs of pinto beans at home with no idea what to do with them. > Anybody that stupid deserves to go hungry. Well I'm older than that and I don't even know what a pinto bean is. Mind you, if presented with dried members of the bean family of any description, then I think I'd have a fair idea of what to do with them given that I know how to deal with soy/kidney/haricot/borlotti etc and also what to do with pulses. But what exactly is a food bank? By that I mean how does it operate - who can access it, how low does one need to be to access one? Is it a charity or is it govt operated? >> > Taxing gasoline to $8 a gallon would just anticipate what is going to >> > happen anyway. The dollar is going to crash. Crude oil will cost over [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > The US economy is not strong. It's a basket case. Well certainly everything I've been seeing would suggest that, and certainly I understand what is happening in regard to US debt to China, but you still haven't really explained why you think the US dollar will crash. there are circumstances that could make it crash but why do you think it is more likely than not? Logically it should, given that the US economy seems as sick as a poisoned dog but then I'm not convinced that logic has a great deal to do with the current situation. China would also suffer if the US went down the tubes (as would Australia which is selling China huge quantities of raw materials). The US is a huge customer of Chinese goods and the Chinese aren't stupid enough to kill the goose that is laying golden eggs for it. One part of me disapproves of all those greedy Wall St types effectively getting away with the mess they've created a la 1929, but in reality the only way they could get the lesson they so richly deserve would be for the US to go further down the tubes. The whole world would suffer if the US doesn't survive even if it is sick economically. <...> > But what exactly is a food bank? By that I mean how does it operate - > who can access it, how low does one need to be to access one? Is it a > charity or is it govt operated? First, the federally funded state run program is "food stamps". It is means tested and recipients get an electronic benefits card to swipe when they purchase groceries. Food banks are usually operated by non-profits and recipients aren't means tested. Some food banks have a building where people can go during certain hours to get food and some use scheduled distribution points. Food banks get the food from a variety of sources, commonly it's manufacturer/grower/super market surplus. Not certain about this, but I think food banks originated to distribute US Department of Agriculture dairy products and other commodities purchased through their price support programs. Funding for food bank operating expenses may come from the parent organization, local government, donations, etc. The food bank in the county where I do most of my grocery shopping periodically runs a "Check Out Hunger" fund raiser. Cooperating supermarkets have bar coded coupons at the checkouts for shoppers to include in their purchases scan. What food banks often lack is a selection of food; what they have is what one gets. They tend to be short on fresh and heavy on prepared food. I'd read the "pinto bean" article and I interpreted the quote as wry comment on that situation, not a complaint. > <...> >> But what exactly is a food bank? By that I mean how does it operate - [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > I'd read the "pinto bean" article and I interpreted the quote as wry > comment on that situation, not a complaint. Thanks for that description Ann. Very interesting. Here the starving use charities like the Salvation Army etc, but I must admit that I don't know anyone who's ever had to use that sevice. > "Larry Caldwell" <N...@this.address> wrote in message > Well I'm older than that and I don't even know what a pinto bean is. Mind > you, if presented with dried members of the bean family of any description, > then I think I'd have a fair idea of what to do with them given that I know > how to deal with soy/kidney/haricot/borlotti etc and also what to do with > pulses. Beans are a New World crop, and were one of the staples of native agriculture, along with squash and maize. Pinto beans are a large (2 cm long) and agriculturally very productive bean. They are cheap in the USA. At a local bulk food store, you can buy a 50 lb. sack of pinto beans for about $6. That's a huge amount of food. Back when I was a starving student trying to eat on $1 a day, pinto beans kept me alive. A simple pot of vegetarian bean recipe: fill a pot 1/6 full with dry beans (they swell) and soak them in a warm place for 24 hours. Drain and rinse thoroughly. Soaking releases the indigestible sugars that cause flatulence, so the better you soak and rinse them, the fewer farts. Cover the beans with water, add a little olive oil and cook on low heat for a couple days. When the urge strikes you, add a couple strong onions and a can of tomato sauce, salt to taste, and maybe add a dash of cumin or hot peppers. If you don't have a crock pot with a low setting, put the bean pot in a pan of water on the stove to keep it from burning on the bottom. That's your basic chili. Fry up some ground beef, pork, chicken, turkey or road kill, season to taste and add to the chili for chili con carne, or serve the meat on the side. If you cook it thick enough, it will turn into a paste when you cool it, AKA refritos. Roll it in a tortilla with whatever for a burrito, use it for a dip with corn chips and beer, or as a garnish on salad. Beans may be the cheapest meal in the world. You may get real tired of them, but you won't starve. There are a lot of recipes for beans. Sweet baked beans are popular, if you have brown sugar or molasses. Smoked meats go good in a pot of beans. You just can't get in a hurry. Starting with dry beans, it takes two days to make anything decent with beans. They don't fit in a fast food world. If you try to reheat them in a microwave, they explode, so be sure to cover any leftovers before you nuke them. On Feb 24, 4:47 am, "FarmI" <ask@itshall be given> wrote: > "Larry Caldwell" <N...@this.address> wrote in message > Well I'm older than that and I don't even know what a pinto bean is. Mind > you, if presented with dried members of the bean family of any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > how to deal with soy/kidney/haricot/borlotti etc and also what to do with > pulses. Beans are a New World crop, and were one of the staples of native agriculture, along with squash and maize. Pinto beans are a large (2 cm long) and agriculturally very productive bean. They are cheap in the USA. At a local bulk food store, you can buy a 50 lb. sack of pinto beans for about $6. That's a huge amount of food. Back when I was a starving student trying to eat on $1 a day, pinto beans kept me alive. A simple pot of vegetarian bean recipe: fill a pot 1/6 full with dry beans (they swell) and soak them in a warm place for 24 hours. Drain and rinse thoroughly. Soaking releases the indigestible sugars that cause flatulence, so the better you soak and rinse them, the fewer farts. Cover the beans with water, add a little olive oil and cook on low heat for a couple days. When the urge strikes you, add a couple strong onions and a can of tomato sauce, salt to taste, and maybe add a dash of cumin or hot peppers. If you don't have a crock pot with a low setting, put the bean pot in a pan of water on the stove to keep it from burning on the bottom. That's your basic chili. Fry up some ground beef, pork, chicken, turkey or road kill, season to taste and add to the chili for chili con carne, or serve the meat on the side. If you cook it thick enough, it will turn into a paste when you cool it, AKA refritos. Roll it in a tortilla with whatever for a burrito, use it for a dip with corn chips and beer, or as a garnish on salad. Beans may be the cheapest meal in the world. You may get real tired of them, but you won't starve. There are a lot of recipes for beans. Sweet baked beans are popular, if you have brown sugar or molasses. Smoked meats go good in a pot of beans. You just can't get in a hurry. Starting with dry beans, it takes two days to make anything decent with beans. They don't fit in a fast food world. If you try to reheat them in a microwave, they explode, so be sure to cover any leftovers before you nuke them. ___________________________________________ LOL. Larry, that was like telling grandma how to suck eggs, even if it was interesting. I can cook and I also love beans and pulses of all descriptions and I use then regulalry. I have heaps of them in my pantry in all varieties. My pantry is not a large cupboard in the corner of a modern kitchen, it's a big walk in room with floor to ceiling shelves and in there is a freezer, a microwave, all my really big cooking pots like boilers (at least 3 of them), my big jam pan, my big electric appliances and my bulk food store. I run a very old fashioned country kitchen and since the topic of heating came up, I've been thinking that my Great, Great Grandmother wouldn't have too much trouble adapting to my way of life as really it's not a great deal different than hers would have been. Although she'd be initially bewildered by the TV, the electric light and that hole in the wall where I plug in an electric kettle to boil water, she'd also recognize the cast iron kettle on my wood burning kitchen stove (range), my containers full of whisks and wooden spoons, my battery of saucepans and boilers even if she did wonder about the shiny material they were made of. And she'd also recognise the rythms of my day. Feed and check the chooks, collect the eggs, check out the veggie garden, harvest what is ripe, weed and plant according to the season and do food prep in the morning for an evening meal of even on for the day/s after that if it's not a quick grill (broil) and salad. > He's poking his nose into the people's business way in deep where a > spoiled little city boy's nose doesn't belong. > > Yup. The honeymoon is OVER! I don't think he's that bad so far. The only thing that truly matters is how to cut spending and raise taxes. But at least he hasn't started any major new wars. > > He's poking his nose into the people's business way in deep where a > > spoiled little city boy's nose doesn't belong. > > > Yup. The honeymoon is OVER! > > I don't think he's that bad so far. Well then, you have no damned sense of honor. Why not? What's missing from your heart? Or your head or your putative goddam SOUL? You DON'T diss the Dalai Lama. What? IS missing, here? -- JM > Obama meets him in the Map Room, not the Oval Office, and when the > meeting is over, ushers him out the BACK DOOR of the White House. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > man, despite despising his agenda, he has now made any further such > affection difficult to the point of being humanly impossible. Who despises his agenda other than a some Americans? The rest of the world still thinks his foreign policies are the best that the US has had for many years. Many Americans who can think beyond their own small town interests also still think he's a good choice (thankfully). > Is is hard to imagine what sort of an "American" could possibly > countenance such disgraceful, spineless kow-towing to the forces of > oppression and tyranny in this world. If the United States is not all > about stepping forward against just that, then the United States is > about nothing. What rot. If the US under Bush could countenance and even legitimise torture then that time has to be the lowest and most rotten time in all the US's history. I expected better of America at that time and was deeply disturbed that such a formerly great nation could sink so low. Thankfully, it now seems to have remembered that it once had a good reputation in the world and rediscovered its former sense of decency and morality. > It is embarrassing to have such a toady, such an utter quisling as the > chief representative of this country, and the cheeks of every American > should be burning with shame. Sadly only some American cheeks burned of shame over torturing prisoners under Bush. > Thankfully, now that it is possible to see the complete lack of > substance in Obama the man, there should no longer be any question [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > is driving the working class into poverty and crime. Is it this which > has the Tea Party people comparing him to Hitler? Those Tea Party people don't seem to be too bright anyway. Hopefully they are only a minor aberration on the US's political landscape. How much does a pack of cigarettes cost? If I bought a pack of Benson and Hedges 25s, I be paying $US 12.58 and after June that will be almost $18US/pack. If you're paying less than that then stop whining. The rest of the western world has realised that there is a significant cost arising from smoker's health and has done something about it by imposing huge tax levels on smokers. If you choose to smoke you pay the cost. Or is it his > intention to decide for people what they will have under the hoods of > their pickup trucks? Will he make it impossible for your average [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > He's poking his nose into the people's business way in deep where a > spoiled little city boy's nose doesn't belong. Well it's about time an American President had the guts to expect American's to look at their lifestyles and to think about it's position and actions in the 21st century. The rest of the western world has known for years that we're post peak oil, that smoking is bad for people and if people choose to smoke then they should be prepared to pay for doing so and that universal health care is a right and that the health of a nation's populace is also tied to strategic survival. [....] > How much does a pack of cigarettes cost? If I bought a pack of Benson and > Hedges 25s, I be paying $US 12.58 and after June that will be almost [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > arising from smoker's health and has done something about it by imposing > huge tax levels on smokers. actually, by imposing taxes they are gaining a free or subsidized ride at the expense of the smoker. > If you choose to smoke you pay the cost. that would nice if that was how it actually worked. say if any person made the knowing choice to engage in behavior known to be conducive to any health risk then said person should be forced to pay for their choice and only their choice. However, a bunch of freeloaders have successfully managed to label the consumer of tobacco as someone who should give over their money to a bunch of socialist freeloaders who want a free ride. [....] > The rest of the western world has known for years [....] > that smoking is bad for people and if people choose to smoke then they > should be prepared to pay for doing so yes pay for their choice by paying their own doctor bills. > and that universal health care is a right why is it persons right to require another person to pay their doctor bills? > [....] >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > should give over their money to a bunch of socialist freeloaders who > want a free ride. The children who benefit from S-CHIP (insurance funded by the federal tobacco tax increase) are "socialist freeloaders"? What about the recipients of government tobacco growing subsidies and/or buy-outs. Yes, I do think the tobacco tax is unfair when foods/beverages harmful to ones health are taxed minimally if at all. Otoh, when cost is a factor, RYO is a option. Anyone who hasn't figured out that "smooth" pipe tobacco (taxed at a lower rate) is essentially the same (but coarser) as cigarette tobacco probably shouldn't be permitted to possess matches, lighters, or any other flame-producing implement. > [....] >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > why is it persons right to require another person to pay their doctor > bills? Let he/she who is without a government subsidy funded by other taxpayers cast the first stone. <g> > > However, a bunch of freeloaders have > > successfully managed to label the consumer of tobacco as someone who [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The children who benefit from S-CHIP (insurance funded by the federal > tobacco tax increase) are "socialist freeloaders"? Of course you know that you are distorting his comment by typing words under Jim's fingers that he had no intention to write. Naturally, ALL children are "freeloaders" till they are old enough to work and vote and drink and smoke. So your emotional appeal for favor of the "children who will benefit" is just a sneaky rhetorical trick, which you are quite obviously intelligent enough to recognize for what it is--given that you are ethical enough to own up to it, into the bargain. No, the freeloaders in this case are the Obama voters, and/or supporters, the freeloading parents of those children. It is this predatory "Yes, We Can" bourgeoisie that thinks nothing of robbing the working man's pocket to the benefit of their own middle class greed for a handout. Great Idea, Mr. President--why not mug the smoker out on the street for it? That ought to be a neat trick. Kind of like the way a Jew gets mugged in any Muslim country by means of the Jizya. There is much to be learned from the "enlighted" way Islam has always "got along" with the "People of the Book". A little Al Capone style extortion is always profitable and holy in the eyes of Allah, praised be He. A discriminatory tax, a Bill of Attainder, a dirty, brutal, hateful economic bludgeon wielded in the hands of a prohibitionist, puritanical pack of teetotaling twits and biddies who want to enforce their filthy little fascist freedom hating agenda against others whose lifestyles they have it in their misbegotten conceit to "disapprove". And who was it that spoke of this phony, pompous bourgeois caste of elitist Pharisees to say, "For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath."? Who WAS that masked man? "Wal, I dunno, but he sho'ly had him some shiny silver bullets, now din't He?" Maybe it's about time these "socialist freeloaders" started looking for their handouts from the pockets of those who can well afford the honor of being a benefit to other people's children? Let us have us a good long look at what we got in that rich doctor's pocket, and down in the purse of Ms. Hospital Administrator, and in the glove compartments those Cadillac driving blue-bloods over at Blue Cross/ Blue Shield. Or shall we really continue to be content to be shoving our furtive little fingers into the purse of that poor girl checking groceries down at Wal-Mart? Hm? You ever see a critically acclaimed flic by name of "Frozen River"? Check it out. If you got NetFlix you can stream it for free. And you'll rarely see a more heart-wrenching portrayal of the plight of the kind of people who are in this day being called upon to take care of everybody else's children--AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR OWN. > What about the > recipients of government tobacco growing subsidies and/or buy-outs. > > Yes, I do think the tobacco tax is unfair when foods/beverages harmful to Well, bless your heart, there may be hope for you yet, m'lady. > ones health are taxed minimally if at all. Otoh, when cost is a factor, > RYO is a option. Anyone who hasn't figured out that "smooth" pipe tobacco > (taxed at a lower rate) is essentially the same (but coarser) as > cigarette tobacco . . . Then it is NOT the same, coarse as that stuff is, and there is nothing "smooth" about it when taken on an inhale rather than merely puffed from a pipe, as any user of tobacco has long experienced thanks to the curse that comes from a can of Prince Albert or Velvet. Why nothing but tramps and hobos down on their luck have ever been given to rolling such stuff as that into a cigarette. Say! it is far harder on the health of those who are driven by such taxation imposed penury to smoke such stuff. Except you are smoking a top grade of fine Virginia Bright Leaf and Turkish, blended for your cigarette, and not some cheap, coarse grade of White Burley, you are headed for a Bad Day at Black Lung Rock, Baby. And I will not be driven to that by these hateful socialist muggers, these bourgeois snots. I will look high and low for the way to defy their tyranny and their highway robbery, and will find it, one way or the other. But as to this loudmouth "Farml" with his "moron" talk about growing one's own Burley? Hah! Has he ever visited a tobacco plantation to learn of all the ancient knowhow involved in the curing process to make a raw leaf of tobacco fit to smoke? Let alone, rarest of all, the climactic conditions necessary for the growing of Bright Leaf tobacco? Maybe he thinks it's so easy as brewing up a jug of corn likker moonshine out there behind some Kentucky hill at his still in the pines? Yeah, let's get started talking about the true definition of a "moron" if anybody really thinks you can just grow it and smoke it, easy as that, like it was a crumby dime bag of boo.hustled over the border from Juarez, seeds, stems and all. ;-) Once again, Dear Lady, you are promoting the niceties of compromise, as we all get marched out in company with the Dalai Lama, as the trash, for the sake of kissing the Communist Chinese ___ (fill in the blank with something that rhymes with "Requiem Mass"). -- JM http://whosenose.blogspot.com http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com Just > But as to this loudmouth "Farml" with his "moron" talk about growing > one's own Burley? Hah! Has he ever visited a tobacco plantation to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > easy as that, like it was a crumby dime bag of boo.hustled over the > border from Juarez, seeds, stems and all. ;-) Hey quit dissing Mexican WEED.. nobody smuggled a crumby dime bag of that shiznit back. They usually brought it in by the truckload,planeload or boatload.. Now with increased border security the folks in Cali have gotten better at growing it than the Mexicans or Columbians. Their operations are top of the line, and if the government wants to pick some pockets, they should legalize it and tax it just like they do booze and tobacco. They would save a heckuva lot of money by not throwing so many people in jail for its use and sale too. We currently have over 2million people in jail in the USA, over half of them are there for non violent drug related crimes. The added advantage would be a more mellow less cantankerous populous. Who wants to fight when they'd rather munch out and take a nap afterwards? The real reason you can't duplicate that fine bright leaf tobacco you speak so reverently of is all the additives that the tobacco companies throw into the mix to make it more addictive than heroin.. Cigarettes...Blehh. > JM http://whosenose.blogspot.com > http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com > Just > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Hey quit dissing Mexican WEED.. nobody smuggled a crumby dime bag of > that shiznit back. I did. Sure did, literally taking it "back" from McAllen over the bridge into Reynosa. And if I hadn't been so stoned on acid at the time, I should say by retrospect that "I must have been nuts!" I had two joints (about the equivalent of a "dime bag" at today's prices) in my shirt pocket, the gift of a fine hippie pal o' mine of the time (1970) in El Paso. That was back in the days of my Odyssey as an American Wetback in Mexico. >They usually brought it in by the > truckload,planeload or boatload.. Now with increased border security > the folks in Cali have gotten better at growing it than the Mexicans or > Columbians. So they say, but of course I personally would have no idea, having been one last toke over the line since 1974--and that was from somebody else's bag. Ever since the day, I've managed to stay drunk on nothing but Jesus and Tequila. It's Tequila for the weekend, and Jesus, only dear sweet Jesus who gets me through those other five days till the next bottle of Casca Viejo arrives. This is not to say "Jesus" to the exclusion of the Buddha, Moses, Socrates and Isaiah. No, my high these days is entirely a highly eclectic mixed bag that includes just about everything except that really bad paraquat laced "shiznit" (as you say) called "Allah". Talk about the bad "brown acid", man. Whoa! Some bummer. I once sat down with the determination to read the Qur'an cover to cover. It was on the toilet where I sat for these readings, extended out over a period of about six months worth of daily sessions. It's only a wonder I didn't wind up getting constipated for life. It was the most anti- spiritual, unenlightening read I've had since "Mein Kampf", or maybe the SCUM Manifesto of Valerie Solanas--of "I Shot Andy Warhol" fame? >Their operations are top of the line, and if the government > wants to pick some pockets, they should legalize it and tax it just like [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > all the additives that the tobacco companies throw into the mix to make > it more addictive than heroin. I would want to check the facts on that. The only "additives" I know about are what they put in the paper to keep a cigarette burning in the ashtray, namely potassium nitrate (a constituent of low grade gun- powder). I order my cigarette papers, "Pure Hemp" from an on-line dealer in Canada. It simply makes *no sense* to me that the tobacco companies would need to make their product any the more habit-forming than it is, naturally. Sounds like a bunch of progressive pinko propaganda to me, I got to be honest with you. Just like what they say about tobacco being "addictive". No such thing. There is no withdrawal sickness associated with it, as with heroin. I never saw a Lucky Strike smoker rolling around on the floor, throwing up, shaking like he had a ten foot vibrator up his bum, simply because he hadn't lit up a Lucky for the past 12 hours. I really wish people would stop trying to b.s. me about stuff like that, the way they're always trying to make a holy cause of hating and demonizing the things other people may happen to enjoy. It's like demanding that everyone should sit down and ruin a good "shiznit" by reading the Koran. I would never wish my own masochistic perversions on anybody else, nor would I hate and envy them for what they may enjoy. >.. Cigarettes...Blehh. Well, I happen to enjoy them, myself. I wouldn't maintain the habit otherwise. I've kicked worse things, such as for example, expensive Swiss chocolate. It was the sugar I had to cut loose, and did. That's why I had to make the switch from Cabernet and Chardonnay to Tequila. I am a highly disciplined, health-conscious person, as you can see. -- JM http://groups.google.com/group/readers-round-table http://whosenose.blogspot.com http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com > Just >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > cantankerous populous. Who wants to fight when they'd rather munch out and > take a nap afterwards? I will definitely be around for that! Probably available the whole time >> > However, a bunch of freeloaders have >> > successfully managed to label the consumer of tobacco as someone who [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > obviously intelligent enough to recognize for what it is--given that you > are ethical enough to own up to it, into the bargain. What Jim wrote was "socialist freeloaders". You are distorting his intent by misinterpreting it as all freeloaders. > No, the freeloaders in this case are the Obama voters, and/or > supporters, the freeloading parents of those children. It is this [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Well, bless your heart, there may be hope for you yet, m'lady. Not all people can be sorted into neat little boxes and labeled conservative, liberal ... whatever. >> ones health are taxed minimally if at all. Otoh, when cost is a factor, >> RYO is a option. Anyone who hasn't figured out that "smooth" pipe [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and hobos down on their luck have ever been given to rolling such stuff > as that into a cigarette. Except ... what I referred to was pipe tobacco labeled as "smooth", not real pipe tobacco like Prince Albert. And, while it's referred to as RYO, the usual contemporary rolling method is an injector and filter cigarette tubes. > Say! it is far harder on the health of those who are driven by such > taxation imposed penury to smoke such stuff. Except you are smoking a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > will look high and low for the way to defy their tyranny and their > highway robbery, and will find it, one way or the other. Or, just find/buy what you want over the internet. > But as to this loudmouth "Farml" with his "moron" talk about growing > one's own Burley? Hah! Has he ever visited a tobacco plantation to learn [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > was a crumby dime bag of boo.hustled over the border from Juarez, seeds, > stems and all. ;-) Recheck indent levels. That paragraph in part attributes words to the incorrect poster. > Once again, Dear Lady, you are promoting the niceties of compromise, I didn't "promote"; I commented. Comments are not necessarily an expression of the commenter's personal opinion. > as > we all get marched out in company with the Dalai Lama, as the trash, for > the sake of kissing the Communist Chinese ___ (fill in the blank with > something that rhymes with "Requiem Mass"). "Just Me" <jpdm45@gmail.com> wrote in message > But as to this loudmouth "Farml" with his "moron" talk about growing > one's own Burley? You really are even more dim than I originally thought you were. You can't even figure out who says what on usenet. I did not write about growing one's own tobacco. Larry wrote that. > [....] >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > actually, by imposing taxes they are gaining a free or subsidized ride > at the expense of the smoker. Who is the 'they' who you think are gaining a free ride? And what do you define as a free ride? >> If you choose to smoke you pay the cost. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > tobacco as someone who should give over their money to a bunch of > socialist freeloaders who want a free ride. Anyone with even half a brain in a modern society knows of the health risks of smoking. There is a cost to the health of the individual who smokes, potentially to those around them caused by passive smoking, there is a financial cost to people who smoke and there is a cost to society as a whole. It costs employers, it costs government, it costs health care coverers (and therefore others who pay into health care coverage) it costs the friends and family of smokers. It is not just a financial cost. It is also an emotional cost and a societal chohesion cost. 'Cost' is not just about money. > [....] >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > yes pay for their choice by paying their own doctor bills. And pay for doing something that imposes a cost on the wider society. >> and that universal health care is a right > > why is it persons right to require another person to pay their doctor > bills? Universal health care is not about an individual person paying for another person's doctors bill although for some reason many Americans seem to think it is. Societies work as nations to survive and be successful long term. Individuals within that society have rights and responsibilities. Government has responsibilites to the people of that nation/society. In modern western societies that resposibility includes being aware of, and doing something about the health status of its people. All its people. Smoking is linked to disease and all smokers know that even if they choose to ignore it. Smoking costs society both financially and emotionally. It is a legal addiction that is 'vouluntary' (if one cans ever say that about an addiction). Governments should not only reflect their society's mores and values but should also take action to protect their society (or should do so because that the job of government). >> Obama meets him in the Map Room, not the Oval Office, and when the >> meeting is over, ushers him out the BACK DOOR of the White House. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > for many years. Many Americans who can think beyond their own small town > interests also still think he's a good choice (thankfully). some who think beyond thier own small town interests don't think much of his global warming agenda. Cap and trade is more nonsense with payoffs for some corporate interests that no one wants to admit to January 25, 2010 Global Warming and the Science Fair Test By Andrew Thomas Hypothesis: If the Nobel Prize-winning IPCC scientists submitted their climate change research as a grade-school science fair project, it would fail miserably. Of course, my hypothesis rests on some assumptions. The first is that science will continue to be taught in our public schools, since some forward-thinkers at Berkeley High School seem to think that lab science is just for whites. The second assumption is that the science fair judges (usually teachers) are unbiased toward climate change "science" and actually understand the scientific method. This is a tall assumption, since global warming propaganda is more and more becoming part of the curricula they teach, while the scientific method takes a back seat. To support my hypothesis, I use as my reference "Understanding and using The Scientific Method," a how-to guide to school science fair projects from Sciencemadesimple.com: The Scientific Method is a logical and rational order of steps by which scientists come to conclusions about the world around them. [...] Scientists use observations, hypotheses, and deductions to make these conclusions, just like you will use the Scientific Method in your science fair project. http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/01/global_warming_and_the_science.html |
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