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Homeowner Forum / Repair / October 2008Refrigerator efficiency test conditions?
My new fridge says it costs $43/year to run. Call it T$ What test conditions lead to that number? If I let it run and never open the door, it will cost me X$ to run. So, the annual cost of opening the door is Y$ = T$ - X$. What's the magnitude of Y$? And what opening rate does it assume? If it's a significant percentage of the total cost, it might make sense to address the opening problem. 95% of my accesses are for stuff stored on the door. The inside is mostly empty and rarely accessed. Maybe curtain the inside of the box? OR fill the empty space with empty boxes so less cold air spills out when the door opens. It's the same concept as putting open-topped vessels in your toilet tank to reduce the water/flush. Sounds like it's probably way into diminishing returns, but every little bit helps save the planet. Any idea the ratio of Y$ to T$? Thanks, mike > My new fridge says it costs $43/year to run. Call it T$ > What test conditions lead to that number? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thanks, mike If you dont open it it will cost less than T, if you use it minimaly it should cost T, how they test is published somewhere, try www.energystar.gov I get less than T with easy use. That 43$ figure is unlikely the amount that you pay per kwh. What do they say 0.08kwh, im at 0.13 On Sun 05 Oct 2008 04:41:06p, ransley told us... >> My new fridge says it costs $43/year to run. Call it T$ >> What test conditions lead to that number? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > unlikely the amount that you pay per kwh. What do they say 0.08kwh, im > at 0.13 First it was the idiot who wanted to encase his freezer in thick foam insulation and operate it in a kitchen kept at barely above freezing temperature. Now this... Can't people accept the fact that an appliance takes energy to operate it, and in the case of freezers and refrigerators that there is some energy lost when it's opened? Usually people select an appliance on usage factors and consideration of its energy consumption. Given that they made a specific choice, they must have a great deal of time on their hands to worry about relatively insiginificant issues as this.  SignatureWayne Boatwright (correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply) ******************************************* Date: Sunday, 10(X)/05(V)/08(MMVIII) ******************************************* Countdown till Veteran's Day 5wks 1dys 6hrs 48mins ******************************************* Therefore, knowing that you are merely human, do not assign yourself merit. > On Sun 05 Oct 2008 04:41:06p, ransley told us... > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> unlikely the amount that you pay per kwh. What do they say 0.08kwh, im >> at 0.13 The ratio is independent of the $/kwh. That's why I asked it that way. > First it was the idiot who wanted to encase his freezer in thick foam > insulation and operate it in a kitchen kept at barely above freezing [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > have a great deal of time on their hands to worry about relatively > insiginificant issues as this. I suppose that people who add their two-cents worth of derision without adding actual useful relevant content consider their time to be extremely valuable. If only they'd just share the calculations that led them to the conclusion of "insignificant", we could all go home informed and happy. But alas, no joy here today. My electricity consumption is 60% of what it was two weeks ago. I see no reason to stop there. mike On Sun 05 Oct 2008 06:33:51p, mike told us... >> On Sun 05 Oct 2008 04:41:06p, ransley told us... >> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > mike I buy green and operate conservatively whenever I find it practical *and* convenient. Convenience is more important to me than saving a few bucks here and there. SignatureWayne Boatwright (correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply) ******************************************* Date: Sunday, 10(X)/05(V)/08(MMVIII) ******************************************* Countdown till Veteran's Day 5wks 1dys 5hrs 23mins ******************************************* I'm sorry, I become inaudible when I am shy. > I buy green and operate conservatively whenever I find it practical *and* > convenient. Convenience is more important to me than saving a few bucks > here and there. You're entitled to live the way you want. But there's no cause to belittle me for trying harder. If you have no helpful input...you know what to do...well... I guess you don't... On Sun 05 Oct 2008 07:15:53p, mike told us... >> I buy green and operate conservatively whenever I find it practical >> *and* convenient. Convenience is more important to me than saving a >> few bucks here and there. >> > You're entitled to live the way you want. As are you. > But there's no cause to belittle me for trying harder. I was not intentionally trying to "belittle" you. I just find it incredible that anyone would go to such lengths. > If you have no helpful input...you know what to do...well... > I guess you don't... In case you don't realize it, this is an open forum, for either positive or negative commentary. SignatureWayne Boatwright (correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply) ******************************************* Date: Sunday, 10(X)/05(V)/08(MMVIII) ******************************************* Countdown till Veteran's Day 5wks 1dys 3hrs 37mins ******************************************* Aren't cats just little furry balls of love? > As are you. > >> But there's no cause to belittle me for trying harder. > > I was not intentionally trying to "belittle" you. I just find it > incredible that anyone would go to such lengths. My grandmother had a cigar-box labeled "Bits of string too short to be of any use." >> As are you. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > My grandmother had a cigar-box labeled "Bits of string too short to be of > any use." I read where someone had 3 coffee cans labeled: "Nails", "Bent Nails", and "Slightly Bent Nails". Don Young On Mon 06 Oct 2008 04:50:42a, Don Young told us... >>> As are you. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I read where someone had 3 coffee cans labeled: "Nails", "Bent Nails", > and "Slightly Bent Nails". I believe it! SignatureWayne Boatwright (correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply) ******************************************* Date: Monday, 10(X)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII) ******************************************* Countdown till Veteran's Day 5wks 4hrs 44mins ******************************************* STUPIDITY is NOT a HANDICAP! Park elsewhere! On Mon 06 Oct 2008 05:04:52a, HeyBub told us... >> As are you. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > My grandmother had a cigar-box labeled "Bits of string too short to be of > any use." LOL! SignatureWayne Boatwright (correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply) ******************************************* Date: Monday, 10(X)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII) ******************************************* Countdown till Veteran's Day 5wks 18hrs ******************************************* Abandon all hope ye who have entered cyberspace. > First it was the idiot who wanted to encase his freezer in thick foam > insulation and operate it in a kitchen kept at barely above freezing > temperature. And how efficient do you suppose *that* process was? On Sun 05 Oct 2008 07:00:13p, PanHandler told us... >> First it was the idiot who wanted to encase his freezer in thick foam >> insulation and operate it in a kitchen kept at barely above freezing >> temperature. > > And how efficient do you suppose *that* process was? I have no idea and could care less. It would be extremely uncomfortable and impractical to use that room, regardless of the OP's arguments. SignatureWayne Boatwright (correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply) ******************************************* Date: Sunday, 10(X)/05(V)/08(MMVIII) ******************************************* Countdown till Veteran's Day 5wks 1dys 4hrs 54mins ******************************************* Money is the root of all evil. Send $20 for more info. >> First it was the idiot who wanted to encase his freezer in thick foam >> insulation and operate it in a kitchen kept at barely above freezing >> temperature. > >And how efficient do you suppose *that* process was? At best, a $23.95 new Danfoss freezer thermostat ($0.00 if scrounged from a dead freezer) that turns on the bulb in the fridge when the freezer temp rises to 15 F might cut the $51 annual yellow-tag cost to $3.60. Or less, with more complex controls. Nick On Oct 6, 5:09 am, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote: > >> First it was the idiot who wanted to encase his freezer in thick foam > >> insulation and operate it in a kitchen kept at barely above freezing [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Nick How could putting in an electric heater in a refrigerator make it "more effecent" No dont answer that, It just wont make it more "efficent" My Sears 19.5 resessed-covered with foam is more efficent than Danfos ratings, Danfoss was-is not up to modern standards on Compressors, [at least 5 years ago they were not]. On Oct 5, 12:17 pm, Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwri...@geemail.com> wrote: > On Sun 05 Oct 2008 04:41:06p, ransley told us... > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Whats your problem. I tested my Energy Star Sears frige several times with a Kill-A-Watt meter, the results I post are what I found in actual use in a kitchen that goes to 85f. Do a test and post something other than an opinion. On Mon 06 Oct 2008 03:50:32a, ransley told us... > On Oct 5, 12:17 pm, Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwri...@geemail.com> > wrote: >> On Sun 05 Oct 2008 04:41:06p, ransley told us... >> >> My new fridge says it costs $43/year to run. Call it T$ >> >> What test conditions lead to that number? [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >> have a great deal of time on their hands to worry about relatively >> insiginificant issues as this. > Whats your problem. I tested my Energy Star Sears frige several times > with a Kill-A-Watt meter, the results I post are what I found in > actual use in a kitchen that goes to 85f. Do a test and post something > other than an opinion. What's the point? Were you going to return it if you didn't like the results? Both my refrigerator and upright freezer are Energy Star compliant. My kitchen is kept at a constant 75°F. Nothing's likely to change how much energy they use, except possibly how often and for how long I open the door. That, too, is not likely to change since I open the doors when I need to and for no longer than necessary. You gotta a problem with that? Tough! SignatureWayne Boatwright (correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply) ******************************************* Date: Monday, 10(X)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII) ******************************************* Countdown till Veteran's Day 5wks 19hrs 8mins ******************************************* Cats must knock things off the coffee table so they can lie down more On Oct 6, 6:57 am, Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwri...@geemail.com> wrote: > On Mon 06 Oct 2008 03:50:32a, ransley told us... > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I dont think you understood my original post, I believe in, and have all energy star apliances and was trying to point out energy star ratings can be met by consumers, even beaten. On Mon 06 Oct 2008 07:44:36a, ransley told us... > On Oct 6, 6:57 am, Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwri...@geemail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > all energy star apliances and was trying to point out energy star > ratings can be met by consumers, even beaten. Perhaps I didn't. Thanks for clarifying. I'm all for buying higher efficiency and energy conserving appliances for the home. However, I put convenience above *extraordinary* measures to lower my energy rate. I do not have high electric bills. SignatureWayne Boatwright (correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply) ******************************************* Date: Monday, 10(X)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII) ******************************************* Countdown till Veteran's Day 5wks 15hrs 23mins ******************************************* I dreamed I saw the bombers turning into butterflies. A few more things play a part in exactly how much it will cost to run a refrigerator, including the temp of the room and how well air flows around the coils. An empty refrig will cost more to run than a full one, pretty much because of what you say - the cold air flows out when opened, but also because air, particularly the dry air in a frost-free frig, changes temp quickly. Best would be to fill it with FULL bottle of water or something that holds temp better. > My new fridge says it costs $43/year to run. Call it T$ > What test conditions lead to that number? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thanks, mike >An empty refrig will cost more to run than a full one... the cold air >flows out when opened... Best would be to fill it with FULL bottle of >water... I've never found a serious test of this myth on the web. Some serious energy conservation sites (eg Oregon's) don't mention it. With more exposed cold surface inside, room air will flow faster through the fridge when the door is open, with more sensible heat gain and condensation, which raises energy consumption. Nick vinny had written this in response to http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Refrigerator-efficiency-test-conditi ons-334852-.htm : ------------------------------------- > My new fridge says it costs $43/year to run. Call it T$ > What test conditions lead to that number? > If I let it run and never open the door, it will cost me X$ to run. > So, the annual cost of opening the door is Y$ = T$ - X$. > What's the magnitude of Y$? And what opening rate does it assume? > If it's a significant percentage of the total cost, it might make > sense to address the opening problem. > 95% of my accesses are for stuff stored on the door. > The inside is mostly empty and rarely accessed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > as putting open-topped vessels in your toilet tank to reduce > the water/flush. > Sounds like it's probably way into diminishing returns, but > every little bit helps save the planet. > Any idea the ratio of Y$ to T$? > Thanks, mike I agree that they should put some sort of information on how they came up with $43 cost to run a fridge for the whole year. How many times it was open and at what temp setting the fridge is in..etc.. ##-----------------------------------------------# Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com Building Construction and Maintenance Foru Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup - alt.home.repair - 317267 messages and counting ##-----------------------------------------------## On Oct 8, 1:46 am, jeremyvinzon_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com (vinny) wrote: > vinny had written this in response tohttp://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Refrigerator-efficiency-t... > : [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I can tell you that the new Kitchenaid side by side that I bought a few months ago is spot on to the Energy Star numbers on the label. It was supposed to use $95 a year to run and I measured it for several days with a Kilowatt meter and that indeed is what it was using. And that was with normal usage, opening closing doors, etc. On the other hand, the DOE Energy Star website has a calculator that supposed to show you how much your current fridge uses vs a new one. You can put in your current fridge make/model and energy cost and it generates numbers. That was way off. It indicated my 24 year old fridge should be using over $300 a year. With the kilowatt meter, it was actually around $190. I suspect this calculator may have built- in assumptions about the old fridge, ie that it has badly leaking door seals, dirtied up coils, etc. My bottom line conclusion was that I'm saving about $100 a year with the new fridge vs the old one. Which means the cost savings to run a new one can be a factor in making a replacement decision. But clearly in my case, even at the current energy costs, replacing it is not justified based just on economics. I think as others have pointed out, it doesn't make sense to try to take additional measures like putting curtains inside, filling up the fridge with thermal ballast, etc. in the hopes of saving anything. When you get down to $95 a year to run a 25 cb ft side by side, I don't see that you're going to do much other than inconvenience yourself. |
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