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Homeowner Forum / Repair / November 2006Electrical outlets near doorways.
Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a doorway ? Thanks for your help. >Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that >electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a >doorway ? Thanks for your help. Yes, there is. The NEC requires that no point on a wall be more than 6 feet from an outlet, measured along the wall. This means, in effect, that there must be an outlet within 6 feet of any doorway, and not less than every twelve feet thereafter. This does not apply to closets, hallways, or staircases, or to walls less than 24 inches long -- and there are more stringent requirements for kitchens. Consult the Code for all the gory details if you wish, but that's the essence of it.  SignatureRegards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. >>Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that >>electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >for kitchens. Consult the Code for all the gory details if you wish, but >that's the essence of it. Just curious. I dont have a code book handy. Is this just for residential homes and businesses? What about barns and garages? I was just wiring my barn and I am not even close to this. For example, I DONT put outlets in animal stalls. Thats dangerous to them (even though I use GFIs), but there is no reason to have a outlet in there. Animals dont need outlets for their microwave ovens <lol> In all honesty, where I live, no one is going to care how many outlets I have, but I am just curious. Mark >>In article <1164671026.508189.92260@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "Teo2006" > <teo089@netscape.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Just curious. I dont have a code book handy. Is this just for >residential homes and businesses? What about barns and garages? Homes. Not barns. Not garages. Don't know about commercial installations. [snip] >In all honesty, where I live, no one is going to care how many outlets >I have, but I am just curious. Then do as I suggested: consult the Code for details. SignatureRegards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. >>>In article <1164671026.508189.92260@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "Teo2006" >> <teo089@netscape.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Homes. Not barns. Not garages. Don't know about commercial installations. OK, thats what I wanted to know. I suspected this was only homes but was not sure. This barn is 18ft X 40ft. and I only have 2 outlets in the actual barn, because thats where the animals go. But I do have one on the front wall and one on the back wall in case I need them. Both are GFI, and the romex is run thru steel conduit up to 8 feet on the walls, so animals cant chew the wires. (Some horses are notorious for this). At the same time, I have a small feed room built on the back of this barn, which is "my space". I have 4 outlets inside that tiny 7ft X 10ft room. But you know how that goes, radio, tv, power tools, electric fencer, grain mixer, electric space heater (in winter), and more. Heck, I might need another outlet soon.... Thanks >[snip] >>In all honesty, where I live, no one is going to care how many outlets >>I have, but I am just curious. > >Then do as I suggested: consult the Code for details. > Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that > electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a > doorway ? Thanks for your help. I have an outlet beside a door. Wait a minute ... make that 2 outlets beside doors. Oh, no ... make that three ... there's the one on the back deck by the sliding door. No code up here that says there's a required minimum distance. >> Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that >> electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >back deck by the sliding door. No code up here that says there's a >required minimum distance. No, but there *is* a maximum distance, and I think that's what the OP was asking about. SignatureRegards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. I have ADDED outlets by doors for convenience using things like vacuums and floor scribbers. >I have ADDED outlets by doors for convenience using things like vacuums >and floor scribbers. How about switch-height outlets? They're easier to reach. Signature28 days until the winter solstice celebration Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has no place in the curriculum of our nation's public school classes." -- Ted Kennedy >I have ADDED outlets by doors for convenience using things like vacuums >and floor scribbers. I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a scribbers? -- Oren "Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly." > I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a > scribbers? ." typo floor scrubber, for like cleaning carpet. i hate having to move furniture to plug something in > > I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a > > scribbers? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > i hate having to move furniture to plug something in Same here. Kicking myself for putting all my outlets down by the floor when I rewired. Harry K I just added a circuit and put a new outlet in my outdoor storage closet. I put the outlet near the door. I thought about putting it close to the floor to give any cords used outside less distance to travel. I thought twice and put it between chest and waist height for convenience. > hall...@aol.com wrote: > > > I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Harry K An electrical outlet directly below the switch (usually found by a door) can be a nice place to plug in a night light. It's where you need one, and being below the switch makes it less likely to be blocked. >An electrical outlet directly below the switch (usually found by a >door) >can be a nice place to plug in a night light. It's where you need one, >and being below the switch makes it less likely to be blocked. A good place for one. Signature27 days until the winter solstice celebration Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has no place in the curriculum of our nation's public school classes." -- Ted Kennedy >>I have ADDED outlets by doors for convenience using things like vacuums >>and floor scribbers. > >I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a >scribbers? Misspelled scribblers. > No, but there *is* a maximum distance, and I think that's what the OP was > asking about. Maximum distance? Don't think so. There's the so many outlets on a wall ... nothing to do with doorways. Well, probably against code to install an outlet in a doorway. >> No, but there *is* a maximum distance, and I think that's what the OP was >> asking about. > >Maximum distance? Don't think so. Then you think wrongly. >There's the so many outlets on a wall >.... nothing to do with doorways. You're misinformed, or uninformed. "Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8m (6ft) from a receptacle outlet. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following: any space 600mm (2ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings. ..." [2005 NEC, Article 210.52 (A)] In other words ... a "wall space" begins at a doorway. To comply with this article, the maximum distance an outlet may be from a doorway is six feet; otherwise, there would necessarily be some point within that "wall space" more than six feet from an outlet. SignatureRegards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. Geez ... you left out the 36" rule. Ok, so I have 2 doorway 36" apart :-) But yer right about that 6' rule. >Geez ... you left out the 36" rule. *What* 36" rule? >Ok, so I have 2 doorway 36" apart Then there should be an outlet between them. >:-) But yer right about that 6' rule. Yep. SignatureRegards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. > >Geez ... you left out the 36" rule. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. Yep and the 6ft rule is way over what should be required. When I did my 18x30 addition I figured that was enough and spaced them every 6 or 8 ft (don't recall now) with the first at each side of any door - it wasn't enough. Going strictly by the 6ft rule it is possible to have just one outlet on a 12ft wall. Harry K >Going strictly by the 6ft rule it is possible to have just one outlet >on a 12ft wall. No, it's not -- unless there's a doorway at each end of it. The Code specifically states "including space measured around corners". SignatureRegards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. > >Going strictly by the 6ft rule it is possible to have just one outlet > >on a 12ft wall. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. Yes it is. My addition is 18x30 with entrance in the middle of the 30'. Thus I could put one outlet 6' from that door and another down in the corner...well yes, you are right, I would have 2 in 15 ft. But it isn't hard to come up with a floor plan that would allow it, for example just shifting my entrance over a bit. Harry K > *What* 36" rule? 24" in the US, 36" in Canada ... guess we have longer arms ... or something ... up here. What is the 36'' rule ? Does it apply to USA ? I know the 6ft rule. I thought an outlet had to be located no more than 3 feet from either side of a door ? Or not ? > > *What* 36" rule? > > 24" in the US, 36" in Canada ... guess we have longer arms ... or > something ... up here. >What is the 36'' rule ? Does it apply to USA ? I know the 6ft rule. >I thought an outlet had to be located no more than 3 feet from either >side of a door ? Or not ? There is no placement rule for outlets that specifically mentions doors. Although I think there is one for light switches along the primary entry/exit path. >>What is the 36'' rule ? Does it apply to USA ? I know the 6ft rule. >>I thought an outlet had to be located no more than 3 feet from either >>side of a door ? Or not ? > >There is no placement rule for outlets that specifically mentions >doors. Yes, there is. NEC 210.52(A)(1) defines required outlet placement within a "wall space", and 210.52(A)(2)(1) explicitly states that "wall spaces" are delimited by doorways and other similar openings. SignatureRegards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. > Yes, there is. NEC 210.52(A)(1) defines required outlet placement within a > "wall space", and 210.52(A)(2)(1) explicitly states that "wall spaces" are > delimited by doorways and other similar openings. Also, according to Knight (and the CEC) you also count the space occupied by the door itself when fully open as part of the doorway. So you can put an outlet 6' from the edge of the door (nearly 9' from the doorway proper and still be code compliant. Chris >> Yes, there is. NEC 210.52(A)(1) defines required outlet placement within a >> "wall space", and 210.52(A)(2)(1) explicitly states that "wall spaces" are [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >So you can put an outlet 6' from the edge of the door (nearly 9' from >the doorway proper and still be code compliant. That does not appear to be the case with the U.S. NEC, however. SignatureRegards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. >>> No, but there *is* a maximum distance, and I think that's what the OP was >>> asking about. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >otherwise, there would necessarily be some point within that "wall space" more >than six feet from an outlet. Except that it is possible to construct an area where there IS no wall space within several feet of the door. Take for example, the badly designed rear entryway shown at www.goedjn.com/sketch/noplug.gif As long as the wall segments marked with red dots are less than 24" long, there is noplace in the entryway where you are required to have a convenience outlet. --Goedjn >Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that >electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a >doorway ? Thanks for your help. Not specifically, in the NEC. The only spacing requirement is that, for any point at the base of any wall more than 23" wide, there must be an outlet within 6' that you can get to without crossing a doorway. That ends UP meaning that there has to be an outlet within 6 feet of the door, unless there are other doors breaking up the wall. You could easily, for instance, design a mudroom/entry with three doors, a closet, and a stairway leading off in various directions such that there's no place you're required to have an outlet. But you ought to have one anyway. Put it in the same box as a light switch if you have to. >Not specifically, in the NEC. The only spacing requirement >is that, for any point at the base of any wall more than 23" [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >But you ought to have one anyway. Put it in the same box >as a light switch if you have to. It is worth remembering that the point of these NEC requirements is to discourage the use of extension cords. Just a few decades ago, many extension cords were of the cheap, crummy "zip cord" type, thin 18 g. wires, thin insulation with plastic multi-outlet receptacles on the end. The were easily overloaded and started many fires even though they carried the UL seal of approval. Also... In addition to overloads, these cords were easily damaged by kids, chewed on by pets, smashed by furniture, and tread on by being placed under carpets. For those of you who are old enough to notice, you can't buy these cheap extension cords new anymore. New extension cords are all of a miniumum thickness and conductor size. Still, it is desirable not to have to use an extension cord, if possible, and avoid having to use one in a permanent situation at all costs. If you have a new home, the reason your kitchen counter is full of electrical outlets is that the authorities absolutely don't want you using an extension cord to plug in a deep fryer or your George Foreman electric grill. Notice also that these days, all of these appliances come with short cords (about 2 feet or so) which are intended to be used with this bountiful multiplicity of kitchen outlets. Beachcomber > It is worth remembering that the point of these NEC requirements is to > discourage the use of extension cords. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > have to use an extension cord, if possible, and avoid having to use > one in a permanent situation at all costs. BC: Well, the wires may be bigger, but inexpensive extension cords are still made from zip cord, which can still be pet-chewed and door- smashed. Any flexible cord trailing across a floor or under a carpet, whether zip cord or SO cable, is more in harm's way than permanent wiring would be (though you'd have to work fairly hard on the SO cable (: ) so I guess the objection still stands. Anyway a big mess of extension cords looks like heck. Cordially yours: G P >>Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that >>electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >But you ought to have one anyway. Put it in the same box >as a light switch if you have to. I have one like that. It's often in exactly the right place for an outlet. Signature27 days until the winter solstice celebration Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has no place in the curriculum of our nation's public school classes." -- Ted Kennedy Remember the NEC is about SAFETY. Convenience is another matter altogether |
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