 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneralRural LivingHome AutomationSecurity AlarmsConstructionRepairPlumbingCleaningPest ControlLawn and Garden |
Homeowner Forum / Home Automation / July 2008CFL's and X-10
The X-10/CFL problem has a lot of dimensions, and as far as I can tell, no neat solutions. In examing the schematic for the LM465, it became clear in a way that I hadn't realized before that whatever plugs into that outlet becomes an intimate part of the module's circuitry. Instead of a resistive load of fairly fixed properties like a tungsten bulb, we are now plugging in items that interact with the modules in ways their designers probably could never anticipate. I'd like to see someone invent a quarter-sized insert (like those old bulb life extenders that look like little casino-style poker chips) that would limit CFL-induced noise and signal attenuation AND provide a path for current to leak back to the module to power it and keep the local sense circuit active. Drop it in the socket, screw a CFL bulb in, and no more X-10 noise, no more CFL flashing or relighting, no more X-10 signal attenuation. Even if it did just two of those things, it would be a boon to the greening the households of X-10 users. It seems to me that the connection between the module and the bulb is the right place to fix the problems because a lot of the CFL/X-10 issues come from the "bad fit" of CFL's into the circuit designed orginally to accommodate tungsten bulbs. -- Bobby G. > I'd like to see someone invent a quarter-sized insert (like those old bulb > life extenders that look like little casino-style poker chips) that would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > X-10 noise, no more CFL flashing or relighting, no more X-10 signal > attenuation. OK! That's just what I need. What bulk rate would you charge for a couple dozen? :-} I don't seem to have much interference problems (yet) but I still have 6-10 incandescents around the house because of the flicker problem. I guess, though, from your post that you yourself don't feel qualified to invent them yourself. Half of the difficulty lies in properly defining the product... Jim > > I'd like to see someone invent a quarter-sized insert (like those old bulb > > life extenders that look like little casino-style poker chips) that would [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I don't seem to have much interference problems (yet) but I still have 6-10 > incandescents around the house because of the flicker problem. Unless the bulb makers design bulbs with X-10 in mind, I think X-10 users will always have to implement far less satisfactory solutions with filters, amplifiers, repeaters, special circuits, added-on incandescent bulbs, etc. > I guess, though, from your post that you yourself don't feel qualified to > invent them yourself. Hardly. (-: But I'm pretty good at writing specifications and there's an incredible brain trust here that can probably explain why such a device is impractical or impossible. However, since it took a long, long time for Jeff's XTB to be invented, I am hopeful that there are more useful X-10 inventions to come from somewhere - maybe even from a group discussion on CHA. > Half of the difficulty lies in properly defining the product... That's exactly right. Usenet is a great place to do that, though. Anyone with a big X-10 installation has already learned or is soon about to learn the joys of X-10 and CFLs. Jeff's listed out a number of solutions to common CFL problems here: http://jeffvolp.home.att.net/x10_info/x10_cfls.htm Based on what I read there, I think some dimensions of the problem will be quite simple. I read on some X-10 list that some people were soldering resistors across their CFL table lamp cords to simulate a 7W nightlight bulb. As you may know, installing a small tungsten filament lamp with a string of CFL's often solves the flashback problem. But it's not very elegant and it could be unsafe for a number of reasons. The tungsten filament provides a current leak path for the X-10 module's internal electronic components and, more importantly, prevents the tiny current leakage from the X-10 module from accumulating and flashing the CFL, even when off. Now it's up to the experts to say that the required resistor would be too large, even if specially fabricated into a round wafer. When we define and resolve the flash back/lack of leak path issue then we can move onto to other X-10 problems from CFL, most specifically noise. Jeff says on his site: "If you are handy, an inexpensive solution for many table lamps is to install a 1000uH Miller 5258-RC "Hash Choke" in series with the hot lead. Double insulate it with shrink sleeving. While the 1000uH inductor is rated 1 amp (100 watt bulb), I recommend the higher current 250uH 5254-RC if you will ever use a high-wattage incandescent bulb in that lamp. Could a component like that be mounted in the "poker chip" socket insert? Could both a resistor and the choke fit at the sane time? I don't know, but I expect that Jeff does! (-: -- Bobby G. This was in the mail today...question is has X10 done anything to stop a CFL from flickering from the local control sensing current? http://www.x10.com/promotions/am466_ed_cfl_0610.html > The X-10/CFL problem has a lot of dimensions, and as far as I can tell, no > neat solutions. In examing the schematic for the LM465, it became clear [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > -- > Bobby G. > This was in the mail today...question is has X10 done anything to stop a CFL > from flickering from the local control sensing current? > http://www.x10.com/promotions/am466_ed_cfl_0610.html I suspect not. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe these are anything special. Considering that they put the words "no dimming" in small print with an asterisk I think it's just their way of saying "at least these modules won't allow you to try to dim undimmable CFL's and ruin them." However, if I get a chance, I'll drop them a note asking what makes these different from regular appliance modules. -- Bobby G. Robert, I am using CFLs that I purchased at Costco that were listed as dimmable. They came in a bulk packaging of about 10 or 12 bulbs and they work flawlessly with my x10 system (Computer controlled, wireless controlled and wired controlled) as long as I do not try to dim them. Costco sells two different CFL wattages and it is the lower wattage bulbs that work. Also I installed the higher wattage bulbs where I have multiple lamps an a circuit (kitchen ceiling). with that I left one lamp with an incandescent bulb and the rest CFLS. Again do not dim them. Sorry I discarded thee packaging so I can't give you the brand name. Nooldes > The X-10/CFL problem has a lot of dimensions, and as far as I can tell, no > neat solutions. In examing the schematic for the LM465, it became clear in [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > -- > Bobby G. > Robert, I am using CFLs that I purchased at Costco that were listed as > dimmable. They came in a bulk packaging of about 10 or 12 bulbs and > they work flawlessly with my x10 system (Computer controlled, wireless > controlled and wired controlled) as long as I do not try to dim them. Thanks for the tip. I've bought a lot of different brands and different models of the same brand and different lot numbers of the same model and they've all been different. The bulb makers are constantly changing their products At one point, I was optimizing for low noise, but since I use filters almost everywhere, that's no longer as important as optimizing for fewer "relights" and flickering. I wish I didn't have to be in the business of approving bulbs for each particular fixture in the house but that's the hand X-10 dealt us until they come out with a *real* CFL module that preserves local sense without allowing the bulbs to flicker or relight themselves. Instead of hiring an engineer to solve the problem, they turned to deceptive marketing. )-:. There's a thread about CFL's in alt.home.repair I was tempted to cross-post, but the temptation faded. (-: It seems to say that nearly every CFL user has at least one CFL sticking out beyond the rim of a lampshape or they are using a too dim CFL somewhere because the equivalent one doesn't fit or have ended up using two CFLs where they would have used a single incandescent before. I've got a few very expensive bulbs I got from Smarthome that are dimmable via X-10 (more dimmable than most would be a better way to put it) but they have an oversized base that seriously limits where I can use them (that's a continuing theme in CFL-land). I'd really rather see the market move towards a high-eff. incandescent bulb. I understand CFL save lots of bucks, and I use them where possible, and I appreciate the tip but I'd really rather have the HE incandescents that 1) don't afflict my X-10 gear, 2) don't darken considerably over time, 3) don't care if they're cycled on and off by a motion detector, 4) don't care if they're installed base up or down, 5) dim at least two or three steps on X-10 without buzzing 6) don't cause "relighting" or "flickering after turnoff" problems 7) didn't have even a teensy weensy bit of mercury in them (-: > Costco sells two different CFL wattages and it is the lower wattage > bulbs that work. Also I installed the higher wattage bulbs where I > have multiple lamps an a circuit (kitchen ceiling). with that I left > one lamp with an incandescent bulb and the rest CFLS. Again do not dim > them. Thanks again for the pointer but the real fix either needs to come from X-10 or the light bulb makers themselves. The problem is, if they can save a penny (it's probably a much smaller number) per bulb by using a cheaper component, they'll do it. Sometimes that means death to X-10 signals. . >Sorry I discarded thee packaging so I can't give you the brand > name. Nooldes There should be lettering on the base of each bulb with maker, wattage and other good data. I would jot that down if I were you simply because I wouldn't bet that you could get the exact same model from Costco next year, especially without a model number or UPC to go by. Surely, they are marked on the bulb. Alas, I am not a member of Costco, either, which kind of queers the deal but perhaps others might be interested in knowing what your bulbs say. I've been using the HomeDepot N:Vision bulbs with mixed results. . > > The X-10/CFL problem has a lot of dimensions, and as far as I can tell, no > > neat solutions. In examing the schematic for the LM465, it became clear in [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > -- > > Bobby G. <SNIP> > I understand CFL save lots of bucks, and I use them where possible, and > I appreciate the tip but I'd really rather have the HE incandescents [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > 6) don't cause "relighting" or "flickering after turnoff" problems > 7) didn't have even a teensy weensy bit of mercury in them (-: I want to add one to this list. Living in the desert, I have nine ceiling fans in my house. I have been using CFLs in the lamp assembly for some of them. In this application, the CFLs are pointed downward at an angle, are subjected to any vibration from the fan, and have a service life no better (and maybe worse) than an incandescent bulb. Thus: 8) Don't become unreliable in common household applications such as in ceiling fans. <SNIP> > > <jawladar@mail.com> wrote in message news:de0efdbe-d3cb-42bc-adab-fc6f24d411f5@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > <SNIP> > > I understand CFL save lots of bucks, and I use them where possible, and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > 8) Don't become unreliable in common household applications such as in > ceiling fans. I also should add another one at the request of my wife: 9) that they fail benignly, without filling a room with acrid burning plastic smell and smoke. While I realize that they aren't going to catch fire, and that electrically speaking a CFL failure is a lot less likely to blow a circuit breaker than a tungsten bulb, my wife is very sensitive to burning smells and the CFLs really spook her. That reminds me of a pet peeve: CFL bulbs that say "remove by grasping plastic base, never by glass tube" as if there's ever been enough ROOM in a standard lamp head to get your fingers and the bulb's electronics bay in there at the same time. Hopefully, in a few years, the big bulb makers will be able to develop incandescent bulbs that convert the IR portion of the light back to visible light and HE tungsten bulbs can be used in all the places that CFL's have problems. Or maybe universally as CFL's flicker on into history with the eight track tape machine. -- Bobby G. > I also should add another one at the request of my wife: 9) that they fail > benignly, without filling a room with acrid burning plastic smell and smoke. I don't know where RG gets his CFL's but I've used them for some time and have not seen a single one give off any odor at all. They last a long time, cost less to operate than incandescents, save precious resources and con tribute far less pollution in the process. > While I realize that they aren't going to catch fire, and that electrically > speaking a CFL failure is a lot less likely to blow a circuit breaker than a > tungsten bulb, my wife is very sensitive to burning smells and the CFLs > really spook her. Mine has asthma and is extremely sensitive to smells like burning. She used CFL's in her (now our) condo in Brazil for years without any of the ill effects Bobby reports. Then again, neither she nor I am on a compaign for or *against* CFL's. > That reminds me of a pet peeve: CFL bulbs that say "remove by grasping > plastic base, never by glass tube" as if there's ever been enough ROOM in a > standard lamp head to get your fingers and the bulb's electronics bay in > there at the same time. The above makes me wonder if the author has ever seen, much less used a CFL. All the models I've seen have a rather bulky area containing the electronics. One I just examined has over an inch high module -- plenty of room to grasp and turh the lamp. However, there is no warning not to handle the glass tube. Unless there are other models with such a warning on them, I suspect Bobby is confusing CFL's with halogen bulbs. Those can suffer an early demise if the oil from your fingers gets on the glass. > Hopefully, in a few years, the big bulb makers > will be able to develop incandescent bulbs that convert the IR portion of > the light back to visible light and HE tungsten bulbs can be used in all the > places that CFL's have problems. Perhaps we'll also develope an infinite motion device as well. > Or maybe universally as CFL's flicker on > into history with the eight track tape machine. Better yet, how about a discussion of the relavent issues on Usenet, unclouded by personal agenda.  SignatureRegards, Robert L Bass ==============================> Bass Home Electronics 4883 Fallcrest Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34233 http://www.bassburglaralarms.com Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650 Customer Service 941-870-2310 Fax 941-870-3252 ==============================> > > I also should add another one at the request of my wife: 9) that they fail > > benignly, without filling a room with acrid burning plastic smell and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > less to operate than incandescents, save precious resources and con tribute > far less pollution in the process. Look at <http://youtube.com/watch?v=e-LOtKIIKcg> for a different view of CFLs SignatureTom Stiller PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF > Look at http://youtube.com for a different view of CFLs Let's see. The person speaking is Ted Poe, a right wing, Texas Republican. Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007) Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005) Voted YES on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions. (Apr 2005) Rated 100% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-life stance (190 members). (Dec 2006) Grant the pre-born equal protection under 14th Amendment. (Jan 2007) Voted NO on revitalizing severely distressed public housing. (Jan 2008) Voted NO on regulating the subprime mortgage industry. (Nov 2007) Voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination based on sexual orientation. (Nov 2007) Voted YES on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman. (Jul 2006) Rated 0% by the HRC, indicating an anti-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006) Rated 25% by the NAACP, indicating an anti-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006) Voted NO on allowing stockholder voting on executive compensation. (Apr 2007) Voted NO on expanding services for offendors' re-entry into society. (Nov 2007) Voted NO on additional $10.2B for federal education & HHS projects. (Nov 2007) Voted NO on allowing Courts to decide on "God" in Pledge of Allegiance. (Jul 2006) Voted NO on $84 million in grants for Black and Hispanic colleges. (Mar 2006) Voted NO on tax incentives for renewable energy. (Feb 2008) Voted NO on investing in homegrown biofuel. (Aug 2007) Voted NO on criminalizing oil cartels like OPEC. (May 2007) Voted NO on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jan 2007) Voted NO on keeping moratorium on drilling for oil offshore. (Jun 2006) Voted YES on scheduling permitting for new oil refinieries. (Jun 2006) Voted YES on authorizing construction of new oil refineries. (Oct 2005) Rated 0% by the CAF, indicating opposition to energy independence. (Dec 2006) Voted NO on increasing AMTRAK funding by adding $214M to $900M. (Jun 2006) Voted NO on barring website promoting Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump. (May 2006) Voted YES on deauthorizing "critical habitat" for endangered species. (Sep 2005) Voted NO on deterring foreign arms transfers to China. (Jul 2005) Voted YES on reforming the UN by restricting US funding. (Jun 2005) Keep sanctions against Syria until WMDs are dismantled. (May 2007) Voted NO on assisting workers who lose jobs due to globalization. (Oct 2007) Voted YES on implementing CAFTA, Central America Free Trade. (Jul 2005) Block NAFTA Superhighway & North American Union. (Jan 2007) Voted YES on requiring lobbyist disclosure of bundled donations. (May 2007) Voted NO on granting Washington DC an Electoral vote & vote in Congress. (Apr 2007) Voted YES on protecting whistleblowers from employer recrimination. (Mar 2007) Voted YES on requiring photo ID for voting in federal elections. (Sep 2006) Voted YES on restricting independent grassroots political committees. (Apr 2006) Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits about obesity against food providers. (Oct 2005) Voted YES on limiting attorney's fees in class action lawsuits. (Feb 2005) Prohibit non-legislated earmarks. (Jul 2005) Did you expect to get an accurate, fact-based assessment out of that character? SignatureRegards, Robert L Bass ==============================> Bass Home Electronics 4883 Fallcrest Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34233 http://www.bassburglaralarms.com Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650 Customer Service 941-870-2310 Fax 941-870-3252 ==============================> > Did you expect to get an accurate, fact-based assessment out of that > character? did he say something that was factually incorrect? SignatureTom Stiller PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF > did he say something that was factually incorrect? Did he ever say anything that was factual? SignatureRegards, Robert L Bass ==============================> Bass Home Electronics 4883 Fallcrest Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34233 http://www.bassburglaralarms.com Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650 Customer Service 941-870-2310 Fax 941-870-3252 ==============================> > > did he say something that was factually incorrect? > > Did he ever say anything that was factual? From <http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm> Before Clean-up: Air Out the Room € Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out. € Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more. € Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one. Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces € Carefully scoop up glass pieces and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag. € Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder. € Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place towels in the glass jar or plastic bag. € Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces. Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug € Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag. € Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder. € If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken. € Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag. And more. Sometimes even people you don't like are right. SignatureTom Stiller PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF >> Did he ever say anything that was factual? > > From <http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm> That's for serious mercury spills. It has no more to do with using CFLs in your home than using a thermometer. > Before Clean-up: Air Out the Room > --- snip --- > Sometimes even people you don't like are right. Yes, but what you quoted does nothing to make Poe honest or reliable. He's in lock step with the Idiot. Don't trust anything he says and, more importantly, beware of everything he does. SignatureRegards, Robert L Bass ==============================> Bass Home Electronics 4883 Fallcrest Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34233 http://www.bassburglaralarms.com Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650 Customer Service 941-870-2310 Fax 941-870-3252 ==============================> >>> Did he ever say anything that was factual? >> >> From <http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm> > > That's for serious mercury spills. It has no more to do with using CFLs > in your home than using a thermometer. No, that IS the official policy for CFLs. It is basically the same as for thermometers. It is not that difficult. My complaints on CFLs are: SLOW STARTUP Really a problem for areas that I am in for a short period of time. A pain in the butt for rooms that I will be in for longer periods but have to endure low light for a significant time. LACK OF DIMMABILITY There are rooms where I want different levels of light depending on the activity. SignatureBill Fuhrmann > No, that IS the official policy for CFLs. > It is basically the same as for thermometers. > It is not that difficult. OK, I stand corrected. > My complaints on CFLs are: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > There are rooms where I want different levels of light depending on the > activity. On those we agree. I just get a little tired of the BG's anti-CFL rant which tends to go above and beyond. SignatureRegards, Robert L Bass ==============================> Bass Home Electronics 4883 Fallcrest Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34233 http://www.bassburglaralarms.com Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650 Customer Service 941-870-2310 Fax 941-870-3252 ==============================> "Robert L Bass" <Sales@BassBurglarAlarms.com> a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : _6OdnVFvFbwXrvrVnZ2dnUVZ_r7inZ2d@giganews.com... > Don't trust anything he says and, more importantly, beware of everything > he does. aint that most of asa people say about you? Mr. Bass wrote: > I don't know where RG gets his CFL's but I've used them for some time and > have not seen a single one give off any odor at all. What were you drinking or smoking when you last *saw* an odor? (-: Good sense tells me to stop here because you're obviously torqued up about *something* totally unrelated to the technical issues under discussion. The CFL smokey burnout problem is real. Educate yourself: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=CFL+smoked+burned There's a nice picture of several "burnouts" here: http://www.execulink.com/~impact/commercial_electric_cfl_EDXO23.htm We've bought roughly 50 CFL bulbs and 2 of them have burned out rather violently, just like the bulbs pictured above. That's about a 4% fiery failure rate as opposed to a zero rate for tungsten bulbs. We've never had an incandescent bulb fill the room with enough acrid smoke to make us think there was a serious electrical fire. That honor belongs solely to CFL's. -- Bobby G. >> I don't know where RG gets his CFL's but I've used them for some time and >> have not seen a single one give off any odor at all. > > What were you drinking or smoking when you last *saw* an odor? (-: It's called an idiom. We use them in the English language. > Good sense tells me to stop here... Don't let that stop you. > because you're obviously torqued up about > *something* totally unrelated to the technical > issues under discussion. > The CFL smokey burnout problem is real. Educate yourself: I use them. So far no smoke. > We've bought roughly 50 CFL bulbs... Given your vehement opposition to CFLs, I doubt that. SignatureRegards, Robert L Bass ==============================> Bass Home Electronics 4883 Fallcrest Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34233 http://www.bassburglaralarms.com Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650 Customer Service 941-870-2310 Fax 941-870-3252 ==============================> "Tom Stiller" <tomstiller@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:tomstiller- > > > did he say something that was factually incorrect? > > > > Did he ever say anything that was factual? > > From <http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm> (Lengthy - and quite factual - details about cleaning up broken CFL bulbs snipped) > And more. > > Sometimes even people you don't like are right. Indeed. The problem we're facing in America is that we've devolved into a truly polarized nation of people with very little tolerance of anyone else's point of view. As for CFL's and mercury, it seems that at least some people have picked up on a "disconnect." If CFL's are so damn eco-friendly then why does the EPA publish the lengthy, detailed toxic waste cleanup rules that you posted, Tom? Not everyone is convinced of the value of the mercury tradeoff anymore since even *one* low mercury bulb contains enough mercury to poison 1000 gallons of drinking water. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23694819/ By Alex Johnson - Reporter - MSNBC updated 3:12 p.m. ET April 7, 2008 | Compact fluorescent light bulbs . . . are running into resistance from waste | industry officials and some environmental scientists, who warn that the bulbs' | poisonous innards pose a bigger threat to health and the environment than | previously thought. . . . Even the latest lamps promoted as "low-mercury" | can contaminate more than 1,000 gallons of water beyond safe levels . . . | "It's kind of ironic that on the one hand, the [EPA] is saying, 'Don't worry, | it's a very small amount of mercury.' Then they have a whole page of | [instructions] how to handle the situation if you break one," she said. The correct answer to the mercury problem is to "catch mercury at the stack" and don't expect gimmicks, offsets or good wishes to do the job. The longer we patch together solutions that don't address the root causes, the more tons of mercury will go into the environment. If the nation does settle on CFL's we need to look very hard for enforced recycling (as in $5 deposits on each bulb). We already know that recycling of CFL's is very problematic in the US and that worries me. Ideally, we need another, more efficient light source that doesn't involve single bulbs that can each poison from 1,000 to 6,000 gallons of water. I use CFL's, reluctantly, because one of the few dedicated CFL recyling centers is less than two miles away. Living close to a CFL recycler is the exception, though, and not the rule. Hopefully the LED will reign supreme. That's another promising technology that doesn't involve spreading out tiny bits of neurotoxins to every zip code in America and is even MORE efficient than CFL technology. People are beginning to use LEDs more and more as the prices come down and the reliability and the number of available form factors increases. Sadly, I suspect that LED bulbs are going to give X-10 users the same sorts of fits that CFL's cause because they consume so little current and contain electronics that might interact badly with X-10 gear. But I also think they'll be far better for the ecology in the long run since they achieve power plant emission reductions without introducing another vector of mercury poisioning into the mix. -- Bobby G. dont expect a truthfull answer from bAss "Tom Stiller" <tomstiller@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : tomstiller-F43155.18362328062008@news.verizon.net... >> Did you expect to get an accurate, fact-based assessment out of that >> character? > > did he say something that was factually incorrect? > dont expect a truthfull answer from bAss Or anything but insults from Petem and friends. >> dont expect a truthfull answer from bAss > > Or anything but insults from Petem and friends. go tell oprah! "B Fuhrmann" <b-fuhrmann-usenet@mplsfridayDELETEskate.com> a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : 8pCdnYajctH3DPrVnZ2dnUVZ_orinZ2d@posted.cpinternet... >> dont expect a truthfull answer from bAss > > Or anything but insults from Petem and friends. did i ever insult you? the only one that got it is the one that deserved it... > Perhaps we'll also develope an infinite motion device as well. Don't you mean "perpetual"?? |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.