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Homeowner Forum / Home Automation / January 2006X10 Home Automation and Physical Security
I am new to the automation arena and have a computer security background so I am thinking with my "paranoid" hat on now. Our house has a couple of external outlets for convience while doing yard work and other activities. Looking to install some X10 devices and maybe a security system in the future. Could someone with physical access potentially impact the X10 devices on the inside of the house? I am generally thinking lights and appliances but also the security system if the control panel is able to talk X10. I realize that they would need some kind of controller and/or laptop while standing in front of our house. Any thoughts? Kevin It's worse than that. I can run through all of the possible RF codes and disarm any X-10 security system in about 30 seconds using a PDA. Of course, I have no way to know which houses have X-10 security systems. I don't recommend taking X-10 security systems seriously. >I am new to the automation arena and have a computer security background >so I am thinking with my "paranoid" hat on now. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Kevin > It's worse than that. I can run through all of the possible RF codes and > disarm any X-10 security system in about 30 seconds using a PDA. Of course, > I have no way to know which houses have X-10 security systems. Easy... just look for the stickers X-10 supplies with their security system which say "WARNING! - Protected by X10". :-) > I am new to the automation arena and have a computer security background > so I am thinking with my "paranoid" hat on now. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Kevin Anyone with a plug-in controller can control any of the ordinary X10 modules in your home if the exterior outlet is not filtered. Or do the same thing with a RF remote if you have an X10 transceiver plugged in anywhere in the house. Security systems from X10 are somewhat more difficult to compromise, but not much - the security ID required in the RF code to disarm the system is only 1 byte long. However the off-the-shelf X10 security remotes assign their ID at random, so some work would be needed on the part of a would-be housebreaker to acquire a transmitter to send any specific ID, or to cycle through all IDs. > I am new to the automation arena and have a computer security background > so I am thinking with my "paranoid" hat on now. Good thinking. A little paranoia goes a long way. > Our house has a couple of external outlets for convience while doing yard > work and other activities. Looking to install some X10 devices and maybe a > security system in the future. > > Could someone with physical access potentially impact the X10 devices on > the inside of the house? Yes. > I am generally thinking lights and appliances but > also the security system if the control panel is able > to talk X10. ***Never*** allow your security to be controlled via X10. There's no protection against inadvertent or deliberate acts which can disable your protection. > realize that they would need some kind of controller and/or laptop while > standing in front of our house. There are filters which can block X10 signals coming in from external outlets. However, the technology is too easily breached to be used as an input to your security system. As a convenience, you can certainly use X10 outputs from the security or home automation system to control non-critical services. Anything that is as critical as security, fire alarm, etc., should not depend on X10 nor (for that matter) should X10 be the only means of operating anything critical. If you need help designing something, feel free to post more questions here or ask me directly. I run an online store selling security and home automation stuff. Email is the best way to reach me as I'm presently (Jan-Apr, 2006) in Brazil. -- Regards, Robert L Bass Bass Burglar Alarms The Online DIY Store http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com >> I am new to the automation arena and have a computer security background >> so I am thinking with my "paranoid" hat on now. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >security and home automation stuff. Email is the best way to >reach me as I'm presently (Jan-Apr, 2006) in Brazil. I agree with Robert about X-10 being easily breched and I'd like to add, accidently triggered by your neighbors!!! An added suggestion is to switch your external outlets. In my house, all of the external outlets are controlled by a wall switch to prevent electricity theft and control Christmas lights, etc. from the warm interior of the house. Tag Line: If Islam is a religion of peace then sticks of dynamite are only candles! Agreed on all up to this point. > Tag Line: If Islam is a religion of peace then sticks > of dynamite are only candles! WARNING: The following is off topic. Here we differ. True Muslims are not terrorists. The unfortunate truth is that more people have been killed in the name of Christ (who certainly preached peace) than any other religion. I happen to believe in Christ. I also believe that a lot of people who go around proclaiming themselves to be Christians while practicing hatred and violating every principle of Christianity are as bad as any terrorist who claims to be Muslim. Side note: The "Christian Right" is neither. -- Regards, Robert L Bass Bass Burglar Alarms The Online DIY Store http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:38:18 -0300, Robert <@bassburglaralarms.com> used recycled pixels to say: >Agreed on all up to this point. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >of Christianity are as bad as any terrorist who claims to be >Muslim. Off topic: Okay, okay, since SO many people get upset and worried about truthful tag lines, I'll change it to something else. (Not just here but elsewhere too.) Tag Line: Bigot: A Conservative Winning An Argument With A Liberal >On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:38:18 -0300, Robert <@bassburglaralarms.com> >used recycled pixels to say: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Tag Line: Bigot: A Conservative Winning An Argument With A Liberal or... Tag Line: Politically Correct: means always having to say you're sorry. This is going to be fun. :) > Off topic: Okay, okay, since SO many people get upset and worried > about truthful tag lines, I'll change it to something else. (Not > just here but elsewhere too.) I too despise people who try to hide truth behind political correctness. It's rediculous to pull the wool over your eyes and hope that by pretending everyone is a nice person, they suddenly will be. I would be very interested to hear your proof that Islam is a relegioun that exhalts violcence. I would also appreciate your proving that whatever relegion you subscribe to does not. Quoting Rush does not count as proof. > Tag Line: Bigot: A Conservative Winning An Argument With A Liberal >This is going to be fun. :) > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Quoting Rush does not count as proof. >> Tag Line: Bigot: A Conservative Winning An Argument With A Liberal Off topic: I'll quote a news source, I don't listen to Rush, not available in my area. Anyway the web site, one of many: www.worthynews.com Just look at all the prosecution they exhibit against the Christian community. And google taliban and see how they treat their women, no education, no public view of their faces, etc... Tag Line: Politically Correct: Means Always Having To Say You're Sorry. > Off topic: I'll quote a news source, I don't listen to Rush, not > available in my area. Anyway the web site, one of many: > www.worthynews.com Hmm. The site is registered thru GoDaddy, a registrar that hides the identity of website operators. I've run across a few other GoDaddy clients, including one website operated by a stalker who is well-known to the participants here. If you want to put up a site and keep people from knowing who actually operates it, GoDaddy is the place for you. Responsible news services and other websites don't try to hide their identities. > Just look at all the prosecution they exhibit > against the Christian community. I assume you meant persecution. Sadly, there has been more persecution committed in the name of Christianity than any other faith. > And google taliban... The Taliban is to Islam what the KKK is to Christianity. These are the exception -- not the rule. If you want to make certain that these crazies keep attacking us, keep right on promulgating bigotry and hatred against all Muslims. That's exactly what the crazies want. -- Regards, Robert L Bass Bass Burglar Alarms The Online DIY Store http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com >Here we differ. True Muslims are not terrorists. The >unfortunate truth is that more people have been killed in the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Side note: The "Christian Right" is neither. The Pope has recognized that for thousands of years, Christianity has oppressed and killed those from other faiths. In 2006 though, there is no organized effort from the chruch to kill non-believers. Peace and co-existance is what Catholics and in general all Christians are preaching these days. Not so on the Muslim side...Osama bin laden is a hero to millions of present day muslims. When the towers came crashing down on 911, the Palestinians were dancing in the streets. (The international news media didn't like this reality and only covered brief portions of this story). Polls indicate that there are thousands of followers of Islam in Western countries that will not actually commit terrorist acts, but will aid or at least sympathize with those who do. Look at Hamas, which was recently elected to be the leaders of the Palestinian people. They don't want peace with Israel, they don't want to co-exist with Israel, they have stated publicly that their mission is to destroy Israel. The same goes for that nut-job President of Iran. One thing that the Iranians do really well is profess hatred. No other people in the world burn with hate as well is this group. And yet it is a blind hatred... They hate you Americans because their fathers hated you Americans. The Americans messed with their government in the 1950's and yes, even over 50 years later they still hate you for this and blame you for just about ALL the shortcomings of their society. One recent US Representative suggested that if the war escalates, the Muslim holy cities of Mecca and Medina should be bombed in retaliation. His remarks were condemned and not taken seriously. Beachcomber >>Side note: The "Christian Right" is neither. > > The Pope has recognized that for thousands of years, > Christianity has oppressed and killed those from other > faiths. In 2006 though, there is no organized effort > from the chruch to kill non-believers... Finally! > Peace and co-existance is what Catholics and in general > all Christians are preaching these days. Have you been to Ireland lately? > Not so on the Muslim side... Osama bin laden is a hero to > millions of present day muslims. There are billions of Muslims. Terrorist Muslims are rare by comparison than bigoted, unchristlike Christians. > When the towers came crashing down on 911, the > Palestinians were dancing in the streets. (The international > news media didn't like this reality and only covered brief > portions of this story). Ah, yes. The International News Media Conspiracy. Funny how everyone I know of saw the coverage. It is true that there were Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11. What the media didn't show because it wasn't "news" was the vast majority of Muslims who were appalled -- no, make that horrified -- at what those crazies did. > Polls indicate that there are thousands of followers of > Islam in Western countries that will not actually commit > terrorist acts, but will aid or at least sympathize with > those who do. Oh, really? Who conducted those polls, Pat Robertson? > Look at Hamas, which was recently elected to be the > leaders of the Palestinian people. They don't want > peace with Israel, they don't want to co-exist with Israel, > they have stated publicly that their mission is to destroy > Israel. Hamas is a terrorist group, no question about it. They're among the worst. They've risen to power because they appeal to those who feel they're oppressed by Israel or that they've been kicked out of what they believe is their country by the Israelis. I happen to disagree with them. Personal note: Being of Jewish descent, I'm very much pro-Israel. Being a believing Christian, I'm also opposed to anyone who wants to destroy what for those of my faith is the "Promised Land". That does not mean that I agree with everything Israel does. There have been atrocities committed against Palestinians by Israeli soldiers. The nutty settlers have also done much to incite rage among Palestinians. Our (USA) government has also done little to help. > The same goes for that nut-job President of Iran... Agreed. But he's probably not crazy. Like Bush, he's pandering to the lower instincts of uneducated people who believe he actually gives a rat's butt about them. In fact, like Bush, he's just in it for all he can get for himself and his pals and, like Bush, he's willing to sacrifice the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent people to get what he wants. > One thing that the Iranians do really well is profess hatred... Don't confuse the ravings of a small minority with the wants and needs of an entire population. I know a fair number of Iranians. All are disgusted with the crazy hard-liners who have been ruining their country, all for personal gain and all in the name of Islam. True Muslims find these folks as reprehensible as true Christians do Bush. > No other people in the world burn with hate as well > is this group. Perhaps you're not old enough to remember what the deep South in the US was like as recently as the 1960's. In those days the racial hatred was open and publicly endorsed by police and government officials. These days it's a little more discreet but make no mistake about it. The hatred is still seething just below the surface. It's not limited to the South either. It's a national disgrace. It's not as obvious in the North but the racist undercurrent is just as real. > And yet it is a blind hatred... Same thing. > They hate you Americans because their fathers hated you > Americans... Perhaps if we Americans would learn to leave other countries alone when they're not bothering us or our allies there'd be a little less anti-Americanism in the world. I'm love my country and I'm proud to be an American but I'm also ashamed of the way my country sometimes treats the people of other lands. Being patriotic does not mean blindly believing that everything about the USA is good and it sure doesn't mean hating all Muslims just because some Muslims are bad. -- Regards, Robert L Bass Bass Burglar Alarms The Online DIY Store http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com If you guys are going to blather on about religion and other VERY off-topic subjects, please, either a) meet in some other newsgroup* where it's relevant or b) at least have the decency to change to subject to indicate that you've veered so far off topic that there's not a shred of home automation information in your messages. It's this kind of inability to keep on topic that drags newsgroups into the gutter by starting up never ending flamewars. Please take this topic private or to some other newsgroup where it's topical. There are at least two dozen I can think of. Please? (I've cross posted this to the VERY moribund news:alt.outer-polk.salad.annie where no one's home and you can all continue arguing off-topic politics, religion and race until the cows come home and no one will care!) -- Bobby G. > >>Side note: The "Christian Right" is neither. > > [quoted text clipped - 111 lines] > The Online DIY Store > http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com Agreed. Sorry to be off topic people... >If you guys are going to blather on about religion and other VERY off-topic >subjects, please, either [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >where no one's home and you can all continue arguing off-topic politics, >religion and race until the cows come home and no one will care!) Tag Line: Politically Correct: Means Always Having To Say You're Sorry. > If you guys are going to blather on about religion and other VERY off-topic > subjects, please, either... Point taken. -- Regards, Robert L Bass Bass Burglar Alarms The Online DIY Store http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com >> I am generally thinking lights and appliances but also the security >> system if the control panel is able to talk X10. > > ***Never*** allow your security to be controlled via X10. There's no > protection against inadvertent or deliberate acts which can disable your > protection. Yep, I understand. The X10 protocol represents another point of entry into the security system. With external outlets the security system could be accessible by an invader from the outside. Given that the control panel was able to speak X10 for controlling lights/appliances, I was concerned that an invader/hacker could exploit a poorly engineered or flawed design of the security panel over X10. Again, my paranoid hat is on. Thanks, Kevin |
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