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Homeowner Forum / Lawn and Garden / August 2008Ironite Questions?
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite? What is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal to sell for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to the soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water over the plants several times during the season isn't practical. >Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite? What >is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal to sell >for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to the >soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water >over the plants several times during the season isn't practical. They sell horticultural grade molassas and that is what I use for iron. Since my pH is high I also use magnesium along with it in order to provide more availablity in the soil. You can broadcast magnesium in the form of epsom salt and if you dilute it enough, you can use molassas in a hose end sprayer. Ironite contains levels of arsenic I am not willing to use. It will help kill soil organisms along with larger fauna in the gardens. I avoid it. There are plenty of websites you can read with pro and con on the subject of ironite. >>Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite? >>What [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in the form of epsom salt and if you dilute it enough, you can use > molassas in a hose end sprayer. You spray sticky diluted molasses on the plants in summer? How can you know how much iron the plants are getting and how often do you do it? Also, how to you keep from drawing insects with something like molasses? Here we'd have problems with things like raccoons and possums. > Ironite contains levels of arsenic I am not willing to use. It will > help kill soil organisms along with larger fauna in the gardens. I > avoid it. There are plenty of websites you can read with pro and con > on the subject of ironite. OK. I will Google them but just want you to know I've used it here for at least 15 years and have seen no problems. The gardens are still full of toads and box turtles. Moles are still a serious pest at times. Earthworms and grubs thrive..... >You spray sticky diluted molasses on the plants in summer? How can you know >how much iron the plants are getting and how often do you do it? Also, how >to you keep from drawing insects with something like molasses? Here we'd >have problems with things like raccoons and possums. One tablespoon to a gallon of water as a foliar spray along with liquid seaweed. I have opossums and raccoons in my yard and they don't have problems. >OK. I will Google them but just want you to know I've used it here for at >least 15 years and have seen no problems. The gardens are still full of >toads and box turtles. Moles are still a serious pest at times. Earthworms >and grubs thrive..... Why did you ask a question if you already know the answer? >>You spray sticky diluted molasses on the plants in summer? How can you >>know [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > liquid seaweed. I have opossums and raccoons in my yard and they > don't have problems. Mine don't have problems either, I have a problem with them.... they eat my veggies! = O How often are you spraying your garden with the Molasses? They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start ordering things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be shipped. >>OK. I will Google them but just want you to know I've used it here for at >>least 15 years and have seen no problems. The gardens are still full of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Why did you ask a question if you already know the answer? I asked what the issues were, the problems with Ironite since I haven't had any problems using it. >Mine don't have problems either, I have a problem with them.... they eat my >veggies! = O How often are you spraying your garden with the Molasses? >They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start ordering >things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be >shipped. Lowe's and Home Depot both sell liquid seaweed. Gardens alive sells it on their website. Horticultural molasses is not as heavy as baking molasses and is still black strap with the iron still in it. I spray about every ten days. I don't have a problem with animals eating things in the garden. I'm not implying you don't have a problem with it, just that I don't. I am honored they feel safe enough to be here. Maybe that's why they don't eat everything? I don't know. My dog when alive ate far more of my tomatoes than any coon or opossum. > Lowe's and Home Depot both sell liquid seaweed. Gardens alive sells > it on their website. Horticultural molasses is not as heavy as baking > molasses and is still black strap with the iron still in it. I spray > about every ten days. Oh, I use the Ironite once a year. It's turned over with the fertilizer and organic matter. I'll see what Seaweed costs. I may not be able to afford to spray a 900 to 100 sq. ft of garden every 10 days with it. To spray the plants lightly takes 3 to 4 gallons of water. More organic fertilizers are now being priced outside our budget. I can no longer afford bone and blood meal. Organic gardening is becoming something for those of higher incomes, not for the retired. > I don't have a problem with animals eating things in the garden. I'm > not implying you don't have a problem with it, just that I don't. I > am honored they feel safe enough to be here. I' d be more honored if they ate their natural diet and not my veggies. Wild turkeys were out under the pear tree today munching on the fallen pears. Actually we don't suffer too much damage from animals. Maybe that's why they > don't eat everything? I don't know. My dog when alive ate far more > of my tomatoes than any coon or opossum. >> I don't have a problem with animals eating things in the garden. I'm >> not implying you don't have a problem with it, just that I don't. I >> am honored they feel safe enough to be here. > I' d be more honored if they ate their natural diet and not my veggies. > Wild turkeys were out under the pear tree today munching on the fallen > pears. Actually we don't suffer too much damage from animals. Being financially constrained as you are, don't you look out there and see turkey dinner? Hell, if I were in your shoes, it wouldn't be long before I smelled it cooking, right along side the sweet tators and dressing ;))) >>> I don't have a problem with animals eating things in the garden. I'm >>> not implying you don't have a problem with it, just that I don't. I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > turkey dinner? Hell, if I were in your shoes, it wouldn't be long before > I smelled it cooking, right along side the sweet tators and dressing ;))) We haven't got the heart to shoot them. It's also illegal..... but we've been tempted. The plump sleek deer we sometimes see walking an old deerpath about 25 feet into the woods behind our house also look tasty. ;-) >Oh, I use the Ironite once a year. It's turned over with the fertilizer and >organic matter. I'll see what Seaweed costs. I may not be able to afford to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >meal. Organic gardening is becoming something for those of higher incomes, >not for the retired. You are overusing Ironite. I mean, use it if you want, but you are wasting money by using it too often. What are the symptoms you get which tell you to apply Ironite yearly? >I' d be more honored if they ate their natural diet and not my veggies. >Wild turkeys were out under the pear tree today munching on the fallen >pears. Actually we don't suffer too much damage from animals. What do scavengers eat naturally? >>Oh, I use the Ironite once a year. It's turned over with the fertilizer >>and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > wasting money by using it too often. What are the symptoms you get > which tell you to apply Ironite yearly? The plants are not a good rich green color once planted out in the gardens. The get paler as summer passes. The soil is alkaline from natural limestone locking up any iron in the soil. By late summer they're almost chlorotic. That doesn't happen with Ironite. Also, our Hollies and Azaleas would die from chlorosis before we started using sulfur and Ironite. I did buy some stuff for Hollies and Azaleas this year. I didn't use the Ironite on them. But who knows what poisons are in any of these products? There's no way to know. How can I even know what's in the 10-10-10 I buy? >>I' d be more honored if they ate their natural diet and not my veggies. >>Wild turkeys were out under the pear tree today munching on the fallen >>pears. Actually we don't suffer too much damage from animals. > > What do scavengers eat naturally? That depends on which scavenger you're talking about. Even humans can fit into that category. Insects and bugs are the worst garden pests here, not animals. > The plants are not a good rich green color once planted out in the gardens. > The get paler as summer passes. The soil is alkaline from natural limestone [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > But who knows what poisons are in any of these products? There's no way to > know. How can I even know what's in the 10-10-10 I buy? Sometimes you just can¹t grow an acid loving plant in a alkaline area. Sure you can try to over ride this limitation but it requires energy aka money. AND the odds are not in your favor. <http://www.demesne.info/Garden-Help/Solutions/Soil/Alkaline-Soils.htm> <http://www.gardeninghelpuk.com/plants_for_acid_soil.htm> What state do you reside in? I have to deal with Acid here in NJ. Bill  SignatureGarden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA >> The plants are not a good rich green color once planted out in the >> gardens. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I have to deal with Acid here in NJ. I'm on limestone rock in TN. As the Azaleas died I haven't replaced them. The Hollies are doing great in their mix of compost, sand, clay soil and Ironite. Now that we have the Internet I look up plants before I buy them. They shouldn't be selling plants here that need acid soil. > Bill >The plants are not a good rich green color once planted out in the gardens. >The get paler as summer passes. The soil is alkaline from natural limestone [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >But who knows what poisons are in any of these products? There's no way to >know. How can I even know what's in the 10-10-10 I buy? Oh, this explains it. You are trying to grow plants which absoltely detest those conditions. If you use 1/4 cup of black strap molassas with 1/2 cup of epsom salts to a gallon of water you will be providing the iron you need. The magnesium helps unlock to soils iron. There is plenty there. Ironite, if used, should only be used once every three to five years or you risk overdoing it. Ironite kills soil biota which is far more important than using Ironite to green things up. If you use a quality fertilizer like Medina you will be in a much better position. However, you've come up with many excuses or reasons to continue using Ironite so maybe this discussion should end. It's a waste of time. >That depends on which scavenger you're talking about. Even humans can fit >into that category. Insects and bugs are the worst garden pests here, not >animals. Humans are not scavengers. Scavengers eat anything, including carion. Humans are omnivores and we're on the top of the food chain. >>The plants are not a good rich green color once planted out in the >>gardens. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the iron you need. The magnesium helps unlock to soils iron. There > is plenty there. Magnesium (Epsom Salts) is added at planting time for the veggies and flowers. No more shrubs will be planted as they need too much water in this climate. Ironite, if used, should only be used once every > three to five years or you risk overdoing it. Ironite kills soil > biota which is far more important than using Ironite to green things > up. I found no sites showing Ironite kills soil biota, frogs, turtles, birds, earthworms, grubs or anything else that may wander into a garden. If you use a quality fertilizer like Medina you will be in a much > better position. However, you've come up with many excuses or reasons > to continue using Ironite so maybe this discussion should end. It's a > waste of time. Unless you can prove that to me, and then loan me several hundred dollars to buy it - why push it on me? So far I've tried several organic things that someone on these groups and forums told me worked and it was bullcrap. Then when these expensive useless products don't work, you pro-organic fanatics get pissed off and insist they worked for their mother's neighbor's son's father-in-law's cousin......... Why didn't you just answer the questions I asked in stead of trying to push your favorite soil amendments off on me? I already have several loads of free organic matter to go into the garden this fall. How many people have been sickened or killed by Ironite? Where are the statistics children are somehow ingesting lead from Ironite treated soil? Where are the studies? Very little Ironite is needed. You seem to think 50lb sacks are dumped in the gardens. One coffee can full does one whole garden for the season. >>That depends on which scavenger you're talking about. Even humans can fit >>into that category. Insects and bugs are the worst garden pests here, not >>animals. > > Humans are not scavengers. Scavengers eat anything, including carion. OK, we don't have wolves here but do have Buzzards. The buzzies don't bother gardens. Humans in their natural state will eat almost anything other than carrion. > Humans are omnivores and we're on the top of the food chain. And this has WHAT to do with the issues concerning the use of Ironite? >Unless you can prove that to me, and then loan me several hundred dollars to >buy it - why push it on me? So far I've tried several organic things that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Very little Ironite is needed. You seem to think 50lb sacks are dumped in >the gardens. One coffee can full does one whole garden for the season. I am going to say this one last thing; Oh for f.ck sake go away. > I am going to say this one last thing; > > Oh for f.ck sake go away. Why? Because I'm not a rabid organic fanatic? I see how you side-stepped the questions concerning Ironite. >> I am going to say this one last thing; >> >> Oh for f.ck sake go away. > > Why? Because I'm not a rabid organic fanatic? I see how you side-stepped > the questions concerning Ironite. If you're nice, I'll show you my pesticide collection. :-) Chlordane, dursban, diazinon, nicotine sulfate, Cygon, lindane, all kinds of stuff you can't buy anymore. Pretty brown bottles. The thing is though, I try to see just how *little* I can get by with. (the chlordane and dursban are being saved in case i ever have to deal with subterranean termites; that's the only thing I'll use them for.) I haven't used any pesticides this year except on my apple tree (and that didn't work very well, next year I'm gonna try sticky traps) As to the Ironite, it contains arsenic and other heavy metals that accumulate in the soil. Use it once is probably OK. Keep using it, and the soil arsenic levels just get higher and higher. Do you know what Ironite is? Mine tailings from a toxic waste dump in Arizona (or maybe it's New Mexico.) Instead of cleaning it up, they put it in 5# bags and sell it to unsuspecting gardeners. Bob >If you're nice, I'll show you my pesticide collection. :-) Chlordane, >dursban, diazinon, nicotine sulfate, Cygon, lindane, all kinds of stuff >you can't buy anymore. Pretty brown bottles. The thing is though, I >try to see just how *little* I can get by with. (the chlordane and >dursban are being saved in case i ever have to deal with subterranean >termites; that's the only thing I'll use them for.) Oh! Oh! Get an infestation of Argentine Ants, and you won't have to worry about termites *or* fire ants! No pesticides! No worries! Except for, you know, an Argentine Ant infestation. (They *are* easier to live with than fire ants, but damn, if they aren't the best little aphid farmers I've ever seen.) Penelope SignatureYou have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years. - "pointed" <poppypurity@yahoo.com> > If you're nice, I'll show you my pesticide collection. :-) Chlordane, > dursban, diazinon, nicotine sulfate, Cygon, lindane, all kinds of stuff > you can't buy anymore. Pretty brown bottles. The thing is though, I try > to see just how *little* I can get by with. (the chlordane and dursban > are being saved in case i ever have to deal with subterranean termites; > that's the only thing I'll use them for.) Agreed! I use as little as possible and only when nothing else works. > I haven't used any pesticides this year except on my apple tree (and that > didn't work very well, next year I'm gonna try sticky traps) Fortunately nothing has bothered our pear tree. > As to the Ironite, it contains arsenic and other heavy metals that > accumulate in the soil. Use it once is probably OK. Keep using it, and > the soil arsenic levels just get higher and higher. Do you know what > Ironite is? Mine tailings from a toxic waste dump in Arizona (or maybe > it's New Mexico.) Instead of cleaning it up, they put it in 5# bags and > sell it to unsuspecting gardeners. It was the only Iron I could find that wasn't a liquid. > Bob Many things.............. Marie why don't you stop in your nearby sporting goods store and buy a new fishing pole? The one you use for Trolling is Busted! Very well done BTW. But your Bait is getting old and beginning to smell. Emilie NorCal > >Unless you can prove that to me, and then loan me several hundred dollars to > >buy it - why push it on me? So far I've tried several organic things that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Oh for f.ck sake go away. Oh hee hee, i get it now, the Dodger is a standard issue troll! One of those guys who never had enough attention from their mommies! He slipped right past me with that good basic troll-trick of pretending to be female human such as might deserve to be taken seriously for a minute. Cuz you just can't overestimated human capacity for iggerunce and worth trying to help such an "invalid" at least once before they're sent into the land of the plonked. Sometimes trolls are FUNNY since living in their mommy's basement & never having been on a date, they have lots of time to think up puns between posts. Punning is wayyy important to trolls and twelve year olds, but Dodgy One seems to have only hit age ten. Since none of it's witty even on childhood's level, I'm now only reading whoever responds to the trollings as the perpetrator lacks even the usual low level of troll charm to waste time reading. If you get witty on his a.s I'll notice that though. -paghat the ratgirl Signaturevisit my temperate gardening website: http://www.paghat.com visit my film reviews website: http://www.weirdwildrealm.com Victoria wrote: >> I am going to say this one last thing; >> >> Oh for f.ck sake go away. Pags wrote: >Oh hee hee, i get it now, the Dodger is a standard issue troll! One of >those guys who never had enough attention from their mommies! He slipped [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >-paghat the ratgirl By the way, good "Gattaca" reference! Tell me you liked that movie. Please say you liked it. Lie if you have to! I'm an Uma lover so you can imagine how exciting it was when she was there with her father talking to HHDL. Marie Dodge said: >They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start ordering >things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be >shipped. Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes shipping is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even these days). Consider Maxicrop seaweed *powder* where you avoid paying to ship water: http://www.arbico-organics.com/1313001.html Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper. (I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. ) http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html I buy this mail order *even though* I have seen liquid kelp on sale locally, because it is so much less expensive (in the long run) to buy the dry powder even considering shipping, and because the dry powder is so much more convenient to store. SignaturePat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. > Marie Dodge said: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper. The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25! > (I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied > customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. ) > > http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high priced organic stuff. :) > I buy this mail order *even though* I have seen liquid kelp on sale > locally, because it is so much less expensive (in the long run) to buy > the dry powder even considering shipping, and because the dry powder > is so much more convenient to store. I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the liquid Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once opened, with white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when I switched to Ironite. Marie Dodge said: >> Marie Dodge said: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25! That much lasts me two or three years. (And my quoted shipping by USPS was only $7.00.) It's equivalent to many *gallons* of liquid seaweed. I wouldn't transplant anything without it. Greens up the occasional plant that goes chlorotic. Promotes general vigor as a foliar feed. >> (I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied >> customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. ) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high >priced organic stuff. :) If you gardened on a sand pit like mine, it wouldn't make sense to fertilize any other way...rain will leach anything soluable right away, which is money down the drain (almost literally). My main fertilizer in the vegetable garden is alfalfa (pellets), supplemented by Maxicrop and all the compost and mulch I can make from autumn leaves collected all around the neighborhood. Still have some bags of leaves way in the back from last fall, which will go into more batches of compost as the sweetcorn stalks get pulled. 15 or so years ago I was able to give the veggie garden a heavy dose of greensand, but I was lucky at the time to be able to buy it locally in 40 pound bags. Doubt if I could afford that now, as no one seems to carry it in big bags anymore and the freight costs on that would be really astronomical. I wish that weren't the case, though... >> I buy this mail order *even though* I have seen liquid kelp on sale >> locally, because it is so much less expensive (in the long run) to buy [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when I switched to >Ironite. That's the beauty of a dry powder. Sits there on the shelf so you can mix it up as needed. SignaturePat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. > Marie Dodge said: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > USPS was only $7.00.) It's equivalent to many *gallons* of liquid > seaweed. My quoted shipping was $11.50 cheapest way. You must live closer to the place. How large is your garden and how often do you spray it? > I wouldn't transplant anything without it. Greens up the occasional > plant that goes chlorotic. Promotes general vigor as a foliar feed. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > money > down the drain (almost literally). I understand. Where I live it's a poor droughty clay. We had to till in loads and loads of organic matter to grow anything. It was forest when I bought this land many years ago. It's only the last few years we're really getting into vegetable gardening. I just started canning again this year. Now that we're retired we have more time - but less money. :( We're living on SS and the few extra bucks he makes helping out a friend once a week or so. A a small savings account for emergency use. To someone working full time, or your average Yuppie, the cost of organic stuff is affordable. To the retired, unless they have "other income," it's just too darn expensive. > My main fertilizer in the vegetable garden is alfalfa (pellets), > supplemented [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > it in big bags anymore and the freight costs on that would be really > astronomical. I wish that weren't the case, though... I have the same problem! I have to have everything shipped and that is not possible anymore. I even had to order a canner through Ace Hardware in town. I was surprised to find canning jars at Wal*Mart. This area of my county is no longer agricultural. Farmers give up in disgust to droughts and pest invasions and the high cost of fuel and pesticides. Where farms once were I see subdivisions full of Yuppies. Cattle farms have turned into huge shopping Malls. The stores cater to them... not to us looking for organic garden products. These newcomers hire Lawn Services and never dirty their hands. >>I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these >>organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > it > up as needed. How large is your garden and how often do you spray it? "Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote > > "Steve Young" <bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet> wrote >>>> Marie Dodge said: >>>>>They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start >>>>>ordering things online because the shipping is often as much >>>>> as the items to be shipped. >> Try nematodes for that relationship, then try finding live ones locally > For what relationship? ??? The relationship between product cost and shipping. You seem to refuse to pay shipping, yet willing to spend for a wrong product. Example: Pat tried to help you below, but something was wrong that :( >>>> Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes >>>> shipping is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even >>>> these days). >>>> Consider Maxicrop seaweed *powder* where you avoid paying to ship >>>> water: >>>> >>>> http://www.arbico-organics.com/1313001.html >>>> >>>> Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper. >>> The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25! >>>> (I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied >>>> customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. ) >>>> http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html >>> If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high >>> priced organic stuff. :) >> oh poor me >> I guess you'll just have to kick back and retire from gardening. > Why should I do that simply because I can't afford the things YOU can? > Clue #1 - Not everyone has your income. :-) You're joking? We are trying to teach you cheaper-better but you are recalcitrant. Nothing works but what you have your mind set on :( Here we are, off to Lowes again :( >>> I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these >>> organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or >>> they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the >>> liquid Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once >>> opened, with white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when >>> I switched to Ironite. >> You're wanting to buy the wrong stuff at the wrong places and then >> disappointed that you can't, or you get overcharged :( > I can only shop at the stores that are here. Where? 100 feet from your front door? I've given you leads and links to many. > There's a nursery that carries bone and blood meal and I think they still > have Fish Emulsion. It would be several hundred dollars to purchase > enough for our gardens. People are not buying these high priced items. > They're going for the bags of General Fertilizer and Ironite. Probably because they are not familiar with the chemistry. Does that mean you have to use it too? What did you find out about the other places I pointed you to? How was talking with Eric? As others have pointed out, your problem probably is not an iron deficiency. I agree, it's more likely a magnesium deficiency coupled with a nitrogen deficiency as the summer wears on and the soil gets dry. Magnesium is required for iron absorption. But hell, heap on the Ironite, at least you can find that with your eyes closed and you'll feel better that you're doing something. Sprinkle some Epsom salt, rather than Ironite. Water it in and I'll bet you'll see the difference this year. Prolly within a week or two. Steve Young > "Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > pay shipping, yet willing to spend for a wrong product. Example: Pat tried > to help you below, but something was wrong that :( Nothing was wrong with it. I didn't say anything was "wrong" with it. >>>>> Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes >>>>> shipping is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > You're joking? We are trying to teach you cheaper-better but you are > recalcitrant. Nothing works but what you have your mind set on :( I'm joking that I'm retired on a limited income? Why would I joke about it? > Here we are, off to Lowes again :( >>>> I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Where? 100 feet from your front door? Yes! The store must be in my driveway. ;-) > I've given you leads and links to many. Haven't we been through this before? If someone dies and leaves me an inheritance I'll buy expensive stuff and have it shipped. >> There's a nursery that carries bone and blood meal and I think they still >> have Fish Emulsion. It would be several hundred dollars to purchase [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Probably because they are not familiar with the chemistry. Does that mean > you have to use it too? It means we can't afford expensive supplements plus shipping. > What did you find out about the other places I pointed you to? How was > talking with Eric? I have no way to get to Eric's business so why call him? Would he trade me some soil amendments for some boxes of left over yard sale stuff? > As others have pointed out, your problem probably is not an iron > deficiency. The Soil Test Report didn't list Iron this time so I don't know. The soil PH is 7 and that was good. The Report says to add 5 lbs Ammonium Nitrate per 1000 sq. ft before planting (my fall garden). > I agree, it's more likely a magnesium deficiency coupled with a nitrogen > deficiency as the summer wears on and the soil gets dry. Magnesium is > required for iron absorption. But hell, heap on the Ironite, at least you > can find that with your eyes closed and you'll feel better that you're > doing > something. I don't know who "heaped" it on, do you? 1 lb is "heaping" it on? You're WRONG about Magnesium. It's 64+ so not recommended I add more. > Sprinkle some Epsom salt, rather than Ironite. Water it in and I'll bet > you'll see the difference this year. Prolly within a week or two. WRONG!!!! I am not to add Magnesium. Only nitrogen was low as I suspected. > Steve Young "Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message > I understand. Where I live it's a poor droughty clay. ???? By that do you mean clay that is/was drought affected? > "Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message > >> I understand. Where I live it's a poor droughty clay. > > ???? By that do you mean clay that is/was drought affected? It called "droughty" because it doesn't hold moisture unless loads and loads of organic matter are incorporated, which we do before using a spot for gardening. It's a fine clay that's like powder. When dry it's like concrete. It's really crappy soil. But once organic matter is incorporated and it's fertilized, the plants grow like crazy if given enough moisture. Marie Dodge said: >> That's the beauty of a dry powder. Sits there on the shelf so you can >>mix it up as needed. > >How large is your garden and how often do you spray it? Let's see... I used to use more Maxicrop than I do now. After 18 seasons of adding compost, mulch, and organic fertilizers, the soil is still very sandy, but much improved from what it was, at least in the top 18 inches. Below that, it's pure sand for at least 10 feet, probably more. (I live on top of a fossil sand dune, which was on the shoreline from thousands of years ago when Lake Erie-to-be was much bigger.) A good soak at transplant (I transplant everything other than corn, squash, and beans). A light sprinkle a week or so later. One or two foliar sprays during the season, all over. (This used to be more frequently done. I've cut back.) Spot treatments for any plants that "look like they need it." I have 18 intensively planted beds (each roughly 4 by 8 feet) plus one long narrow bed (20 by 3 feet), plus a herb area, and also two beds of raspberries. Several of the garden beds get both spring and fall crops. It's all worked by hand with a broad fork (no power tillers). The flower gardens (there are a bunch of them) might get one spray in the spring, and any transplants get the same treatment as the veggie transplants. The garden is looking a bit sad right now, as we are hurting for rain. Can't fix that with seaweed spray... SignaturePat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. Would anyone like some cheese to go with the whine? > Marie Dodge said: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > The garden is looking a bit sad right now, as we are hurting for > rain. Can't fix that with seaweed spray... > Would anyone like some cheese to go with the whine? I didn't hear a whine. I heard a gardener talking about gardening experiences. But when you came in, the cheese was loud and clear. You should chat up the Purulent Primrose since you both seem to enjoy gratuitous sarcasm and misstatements. SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html Billy said: >> Would anyone like some cheese to go with the whine? > >I didn't hear a whine. I heard a gardener talking about gardening >experiences. But when you came in, the cheese was loud and clear. I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about.... SignaturePat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. Sorry Pat, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to Marie's constant whine & her inability to accept the help she asked for. > Billy said: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about.... > Sorry Pat, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to Marie's constant > whine & her inability to accept the help she asked for. You mean her inability to pay for all the expensive supplements she was directed to purchase rather than simply answer the questions she asked. >> Sorry Pat, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to Marie's constant >> whine & her inability to accept the help she asked for. > >You mean her inability to pay for all the expensive supplements she was >directed to purchase rather than simply answer the questions she asked. You were answered in fifteen different ways none of which you liked and you started to be evidentally assinine and annoying to the members here who have known one another for over a decade. Nobody told you to spend tons of money. You were told to use epsom salts and black strap molassas which is 8 dollars a gallon at any Lowes and epsom salts are under two dollars for enough to do your whole garden. Now, like I said, for f.ck sake, go away. http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/ Security is not what I have, it's what I can do without,,, > >> Sorry Pat, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to Marie's constant > >> whine & her inability to accept the help she asked for. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Now, like I said, for f.ck sake, go away. I'll second the motion ;O) SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html > I'll second the motion ;O) Yeah, we don't want people to know how useless so many of the organic potions here are - do we? >> I'll second the motion ;O) > > Yeah, we don't want people to know how useless so many of the organic > potions here are - do we? So, do you go to the nursery and ask the manager, "Where's the most expensive and useless 'organic' products you have? That's what I want; I'm gonna show those r.g idiots how full of sh.t they are!" You're buying the wrong stuff because you want it to fail. Bob >> I'll second the motion ;O) > >Yeah, we don't want people to know how useless so many of the organic >potions here are - do we? Go to my blog. My garden is flourishing and I don't use any pesticides. http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/ Security is not what I have, it's what I can do without,,, > You were answered in fifteen different ways none of which you liked > and you started to be evidentally assinine and annoying to the members > here who have known one another for over a decade. Nobody told you to > spend tons of money. You were told to use epsom salts and black strap > molassas which is 8 dollars a gallon at any Lowes and epsom salts are > under two dollars for enough to do your whole garden. Listen smartass. As for the Iron and insects and spider mites.... Every time I try one of your cockamamie organic "cures" and it doesn't work you get your panties in a wad. So lets start with the first recommendations that I *DID* try that didn't work and work our way down... as each one doesn't work you add another potion and another and another.... so far the Neem Oil and Horticultural Oil and Pyrethrum powder did nothing but give the insects and spider time to multiply like crazy. By the time I bought a chemical-spray the plants were to far gone with the oils, and powder and insect damage. Spraying the plants with Magnesium one of you recommended did nothing to turn them greener as the insects sucked the life from them. I have 3 sprayers and not one of the 3 could stray the idiotic flour mixture recommended! All clogged the spray-head repeatedly even though I strained the mixture twice. What an insane waste of my time. Then someone recommended Black Strap Molasses and Mag'...... and low and behold within a day or so black mold and mildews, whichever, quickly grew where the Molasses mixture landed on the leaves. What organic magic potion will you and your buddies suggest next? Oh wait,... I have the organic "Serenade" already, so I can use that to try and control the black mold on the molasses ......... > Now, like I said, for f.ck sake, go away. > http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/ > Security is not what I have, it's what I can do without,,, >> You were answered in fifteen different ways none of which you liked >> and you started to be evidentally assinine and annoying to the members [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >suggest next? Oh wait,... I have the organic "Serenade" already, so I can >use that to try and control the black mold on the molasses ......... For someone who has gardened since the beginning of tiime, your garden sure does suck. I don't use any pesticides, organic or synthetic and I have positively no problems. You are a very dim bulb, dimmer by the second who is sucking the life out of the planet. I never recommended neem oil. First of all, it's not a contact pesticide. it must be ingested and it is not going to work on all insects. Dimwit. http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/ Security is not what I have, it's what I can do without,,, > For someone who has gardened since the beginning of tiime, your garden > sure does suck. Of course it does. I listened to you organic fanatics instead of calling my ag agent as soon as the pests appeared instead of giving them all those weeks to reproduce. I don't use any pesticides, organic or synthetic and > I have positively no problems. Because you have no spider mites and whitefly in your gardens. I had no problems before this summer either. Snip your foaming drooling blather................. SNIP! > I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about.... That was before the weather became political. > > I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about.... > > That was before the weather became political. The politicals may try to control just about every thing but the best forecast for tomorrow remains today . Yea I know it is a cooler August but I read that the Salt H2o is being diluted and won‘t hold solar gain as well. So a cold winter this year. Mad Man told me this too. (Accuweather severe weather gay actuality it was a blog post.) <http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warming_earth/scientif ic_evidence.htm> Bill SignatureGarden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA > Marie Dodge said: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > on the shoreline from thousands of years ago when Lake Erie-to-be > was much bigger.) Drip irrigation might work well there. The best garden I ever had was in central Texas in 100+ degree heat and thin poor soil. I'd been struggling to garden there for several years, and finally I set up an inexpensive drip irrigation system and mulched everything that wasn't leafy enough to thoroughly shade the ground itself. The garden just exploded (in a good way.) Bob >> Marie Dodge said: >> >>>They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start >>>ordering things online because the shipping is often as much >>> as the items to be shipped. Try nematodes for that relationship, then try finding live ones locally >> Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes shipping >> is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even these days). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper. > The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25! >> (I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied >> customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. ) >> http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html > If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high > priced organic stuff. :) oh poor me I guess you'll just have to kick back and retire from gardening >> I buy this mail order *even though* I have seen liquid kelp on sale >> locally, because it is so much less expensive (in the long run) to buy >> the dry powder even considering shipping, and because the dry powder >> is so much more convenient to store. > I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these > organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or > they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the liquid > Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once opened, with > white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when I switched to > Ironite. You're wanting to buy the wrong stuff at the wrong places and then disappointed that you can't, or you get overcharged :( >>> Marie Dodge said: >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Try nematodes for that relationship, then try finding live ones locally For what relationship? ??? >>> Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes >>> shipping [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > oh poor me > I guess you'll just have to kick back and retire from gardening. Why should I do that simply because I can't afford the things YOU can? Clue #1 - Not everyone has your income. :-) >> I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these >> organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You're wanting to buy the wrong stuff at the wrong places and then > disappointed that you can't, or you get overcharged :( I can only shop at the stores that are here. There's a nursery that carries bone and blood meal and I think they still have Fish Emulsion. It would be several hundred dollars to purchase enough for our gardens. People are not buying these high priced items. They're going for the bags of General Fertilizer and Ironite. "Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message > I can only shop at the stores that are here. There's a nursery that > carries bone and blood meal and I think they still have Fish Emulsion. It > would be several hundred dollars to purchase enough for our gardens. How much is it in the US? I bought a 2 litre container for about $12 about 3 years ago and I'm still using it up. I have about 3 acres of garden. > "Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > about 3 years ago and I'm still using it up. I have about 3 acres of > garden. I'm talking about *ALL* the organic stuff I would need for *ALL* of our the gardens. >> "Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>> I can only shop at the stores that are here. There's a nursery that >>> carries bone and blood meal and I think they still have Fish Emulsion. >>> It would be several hundred dollars to purchase enough for our gardens. >> How much is it in the US? I bought a 2 litre container for about $12 >> about 3 years ago and I'm still using it up. I have about 3 acres of >> garden. > I'm talking about *ALL* the organic stuff I would need for *ALL* of our > the gardens. Did I misplace a decimal somewhere? I'm sure you said 900 square feet was the size of your garden. Are you from the school that if a little does good, more will do more good? You are way out of kilter with what such a modest garden would require. I'll also make note of something you said in another post. You said that you put leaves directly on the garden in the fall and till them in in the spring. I would suggest composting the leaves with grass clippings in a separate compost pile. High carbon directly on to the garden has a tendency to steal away the nitrogen. You want to satisfy compost's nitrogen need before it hits the garden. That will also allow beneficial microbes to develop and supply high levels of beneficial humic acid. Steve Young >>> "Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Did I misplace a decimal somewhere? I'm sure you said 900 square feet was > the size of your garden. The three gardens come to roughly 900 to 1000 sq. ft. combined. > Are you from the school that if a little does good, more will do more > good? No. I wasn't raised to be wasteful. > You are way out of kilter with what such a modest garden would require. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > nitrogen need before it hits the garden. That will also allow beneficial > microbes to develop and supply high levels of beneficial humic acid. You're 100% correct but we don't have enough grass clippings and no one to rake up those we do occasionally have. They're sparse, light and left to decay on the lawn. The lawn is some kind of Bermuda grass that is fine and needs little mowing. > Steve Young >>>You spray sticky diluted molasses on the plants in summer? How can you >>>know [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I asked what the issues were, the problems with Ironite since I haven't > had any problems using it. Arsenic poisins the central nervous system, likewise copper and lead. I'm not going to say it but... One application of greensand will work for many years, unlike ironite or seaweed which will quickly break down. Hi All, What is greensand.? Richard M. Watkin, >>>>You spray sticky diluted molasses on the plants in summer? How can you >>>>know [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > One application of greensand will work for many years, unlike ironite or > seaweed which will quickly break down. > Hi All, > What is greensand.? > > Richard M. Watkin, Just So happens greensand is mined 15 miles from here in Marlton, NJ. USA. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensand> I¹d hazard a guess the town got it¹s name from Marl. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marl> I¹ve got a few hundred pounds of it scattered about from 30 years ago. Breaks down slow I read. Lots of these questions are answered in ³ Encyclopedia of ORGANIC Gardening². <http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field -keywords=Encyclopedia+of+ORGANIC+Gardening&x=11&y=11> Bill now out to moving chip 75 F on Aug. 21 SignatureGarden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA > Hi All, > What is greensand.? A mineral rich product people use in gardens. Hi Marie, Thanks, but still not a lot wiser. Richard M. Watkin, >> Hi All, >> What is greensand.? > > A mineral rich product people use in gardens. <properly snipped and egregious top posting corrected> <greensand> >"Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >> A mineral rich product people use in gardens. >Thanks, but still not a lot wiser. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensand Penelope SignatureYou have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years. - "pointed" <poppypurity@yahoo.com> > <properly snipped and egregious top posting corrected> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Penelope Hi Penelope, Thanks, Will go to wikipedia and see what I can find out. Richard M. Watkin, > Hi Marie, > Thanks, but still not a lot wiser. > > Richard M. Watkin, And you never will be when talking to one who chooses to be deaf, blind, and dumb. You probably have seen the reference to greensand in Wikipedia, so let me describe another thought. One pound of iron (shavings would be best but use what you can get) in a plastic bucket, pour one can of cheap soft drink over it and wait 24 hr.. If iron remains, repeat soft drink addition. When iron is dissolved, it will cover 100 sq. ft. SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html >> Hi Marie, >> Thanks, but still not a lot wiser. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > soft drink over it and wait 24 hr.. If iron remains, repeat soft drink > addition. When iron is dissolved, it will cover 100 sq. ft. Why go to all that trouble (to make ferrous phosphate/carbonate/citrate) when ferrous sulphate (copperas) is so cheap? If you have iron filings, just sprinkle them around the garden. A pound of iron should cover a lot more than 100 ft^2, but you're also not going to dissolve it that easily. (Me thinks you are just pulling this out of a dark place) Bob > >> Hi Marie, > >> Thanks, but still not a lot wiser. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > not going to dissolve it that easily. (Me thinks you are just pulling > this out of a dark place) I have been in error before, but I don't baffle gab. Now what lead you to your egregiously erroneous conclusion? > Bob http://www.garden-ville.com/4429490_36600.htm ferrous sulfate ---> FeSO4·7H2O (most common) at. wt. Fe = 55.845 S = 32 O = 16 SO4 = 96 H2O = 18 FeSO4·7H2O = 278 Fe / FeSO4·7H2O = .2 = 20% ---------------- Greensand 17% iron: 40 lb bag good for 700 sq. ft. 1 - 40 lb bag = 6.8 lb iron 6.8 lb iron / 700 sq. ft. = 0.00971429 lb / 1 sq. ft. 0.971429 lb / 100 sq. ft. You can do arithmetic, can't you Bob? SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html Hi, zxcvbob, Thanks for that tip, I will make a not of it. Richard M. Watkin. >>> Hi Marie, >>> Thanks, but still not a lot wiser. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Bob (Me thinks you are just pulling > this out of a dark place) Like a lot of other stuff you're going to read on these gardening groups. And if someone can't afford to buy and pay shipping costs on everything recommended, they're insulted, degraded, belittled and more. I can see why so many of the old posters from the 90s are no longer on these two groups. > (Me thinks you are just pulling >> this out of a dark place) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >recommended, they're insulted, degraded, belittled and more. I can see why >so many of the old posters from the 90s are no longer on these two groups. Name some of them. http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/ Security is not what I have, it's what I can do without,,, > Arsenic poisins the central nervous system, likewise copper and lead. I'm > not going to say it but... It's turned under, not left on the surface. > One application of greensand will work for many years, unlike ironite or > seaweed which will quickly break down. I called all over looking for greensand and no one knew what I was talking about. I was offered play sand for kids sandboxes and coarse sand to mix with concrete. The Nursery in a nearby city knew what it was, but they don't carry it and can't (or wont) order small amounts. The people on this NG apparently are wealthy enough to buy all these expensive organic products and have them shipped. I simply cannot afford that. The cost of gardening would be so prohibitive it wouldn't pay to garden at all. We're lucky we found the place to get free mulch to compost... only $4 for the gas to get there and back with a load. >Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite? What >is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal to sell >for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to the >soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water >over the plants several times during the season isn't practical. I use Hi-Yield Copperas, which is a powder derived from ferrous sulfate. It was recommended by more than one organic nursery, is relatively cheap, and effective. Penelope SignatureYou have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years. - "pointed" <poppypurity@yahoo.com> >>Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite? >>What [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > sulfate. It was recommended by more than one organic nursery, is > relatively cheap, and effective. Where do you get it? I've not seen or heard about it here in central TN. Who carries it? > Penelope >> "Marie Dodge" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>>soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water >>>over the plants several times during the season isn't practical. You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after wading through a fair bit of eco-nazi frothing, found this article: http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120 It was more balanced than any of the others. >> I use Hi-Yield Copperas, which is a powder derived from ferrous >> sulfate. It was recommended by more than one organic nursery, is >> relatively cheap, and effective. > >Where do you get it? I've not seen or heard about it here in central TN. Who >carries it? I think you would have to go to a nursery, not a big box store to get it. I got it for years from a local organic nursery; but when they retired, I was still able to get it from a more traditional nursery. I would just call a few nurseries or plant stores near where you live and ask if they carry it. I really miss my organic nursery, they were always willing to try and get products that I'd read about on the web, or help me find a suitable alternative. The biggest problem is finding potting soil without any fertilizer in it, but that's a whine for another post. Penelope Signature"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart." "ElissaAnn" <elissa@everybodycansing.com> >You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after >wading through a fair bit of eco-nazi frothing, found this article: Eco-nazi? That's insulting, dontca think? >http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120 > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Penelope >>You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after >>wading through a fair bit of eco-nazi frothing, found this article: > >Eco-nazi? That's insulting, dontca think? Hit a little too close to home, did I? Penelope Signature"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart." "ElissaAnn" <elissa@everybodycansing.com> >>>You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after >>>wading through a fair bit of eco-nazi frothing, found this article: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Penelope No, not at all. It is a bit odd to compare someone who is an organic gardener who doesn't kill to Nazi's who spent day and night murdering, raping and torturing people. I think you are a bit off base. It takes more than that to ruffle my feathers, dear. I'm not some fancy housewife in Texas. I was raised in Brooklyn NY and don't get insulted too easily. Your comment said more about you that it will ever say about me. You insulted people who were murdered, not me. >>Jangchub <Jangchub@sakadawa.org>wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >>Hit a little too close to home, did I? >No, not at all. It is a bit odd to compare someone who is an organic >gardener who doesn't kill to Nazi's who spent day and night murdering, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >too easily. Your comment said more about you that it will ever say >about me. You insulted people who were murdered, not me. Heh, yeah, your words fair ooze unperturbedness and undefensiveness. I am, like, all chastised and stuff. No, really. Penelope Signature"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart." "ElissaAnn" <elissa@everybodycansing.com> >>>Jangchub <Jangchub@sakadawa.org>wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Penelope Your words are far more telling about you than they are about me. I didn't chastise you. You made a fool of yourself. >>>>Jangchub <Jangchub@sakadawa.org>wrote: >>>>>>You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >>No, really. >Your words are far more telling about you than they are about me. I >didn't chastise you. Exactly! Finally, we agree! > You made a fool of yourself. Motley becomes me. Penelope SignatureYou have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years. - "pointed" <poppypurity@yahoo.com> > You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after > wading through a fair bit of eco-nazi frothing, found this article: > > http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120 > > It was more balanced than any of the others. Eco-nazi frothing? So this is the fair and balanced report? Let's start with the report itself. There is no opponent's voice in the article there are just the proponents, Rob Morgan, Ironite's executive vice president and chief operating officer, Dr. Eberhardt, Ironite's consultant, and a few commentators. The most telling quote came from David Shields, a geologist with a Dallas engineering firm who has worked on lead cleanup projects, said the key question for consumers is not which forms of lead or arsenic are the most or least toxic. The EPA does not make that distinction when it plans residential cleanups, he noted. Instead, Mr. Shields said, the important question is whether consumers can make an informed choice. "I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't use any particular product," Mr. Shields said. "But lead is lead is lead." Then there are the Bio-Nazis at EPA http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm Release of Heavy Metals from Ironite(R) Ironite(R) is a common fertilizer made from mine tailings available at any lawn and garden store. The presence of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has resulted in its banning in Canada and lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy metals, most notably arsenic and lead. Bioavailable arsenic released from Ironite(R) is dependent on its mineralogical form. Previous work sponsored by the producer of Ironite(R) identified the arsenic bearing phase as arsenopyrite with the conclusion that arsenic in that form does not pose an ecological threat. However, a closer look with EXAFS has identified the arsenic phase within Ironite(R) as scorodite-like. Scorodite is more soluble than arsenopyrite, in fact, the dissolved arsenic released from scorodite can exceed the US drinking water standard. In addition to the data collected at Argonne National Labs in February 2005 that identified arsenate sorbed to iron oxides as the dominant arsenic bearing phase, secondary identification techniques are currently being used to confirm this finding such as thermogravimetric analysis and Mossbauer spectroscopy. Then there are the bio-Nazis over at Garden Web. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg060029533485.html RE: Ironite, Ironate, or Green Sand * Posted by jenny_in_se_pa USDA7 Sunset 32 (My Page) on Fri, Jun 1, 07 at 9:12 I don't recall ever seeing Ironite (or similar iron-promoting products) recommended for edibles outside of the ericaceous edibles like blueberries, etc. Ie., these products have generally been targeted towards ornamentals, and particularly acid-lovers including the ornamental ericaceous shrubs (rhododendrons, azaleas, pieris, camellias, gardenias, etc). Chemically, iron is less available within the generic pH ranges that many cultivated veggies grow in and those vegetables are adapted differently anyway, without the need for the same types and levels of micronutrients like iron, as the ericas. For my blueberries, I have been using Hollytone to keep the soil acidic and get the iron in that they need for the foliage. Greensand is supposedly a good source of potassium and iron. The conglomerate of elements that is targeted in greensand ("glauconite") is a naturally-occuring (from old sea beds) substance that is mined. Back in the day (and probably still in the current), many used to or still do use wood ashes for potassium (potash), although in that form, it can drive the alkalinity of the soil up. Iron was (and often still is) added by sticking iron nails around the plants! Greensand is an ingredient in some Epsoma products that coupled with something like ammonium sulfate, will lower the surrounding pH enough to help make the iron ions available when aqueous. The very reactive potassium doesn't need much (mainly water will do) to make it available. --------- Utilizing recycled industrial waste products is good stewardship if the efficacy and safety of such recycling process and fina |
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