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Homeowner Forum / Lawn and Garden / August 2008Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
I've already mentioned the problems with our Bell peppers this year. Whitefly and spider mite but these may not be the whole problem. I've look online and can't find these symptoms anywhere. These peppers came from three different places, some I stared myself last spring. Within a week of planting them out their leaves looked "strange." Instead of being smooth and flat, they started to look like seer-sucker, kind of 'puckery' and the plants failed to make normal growth. As the weeks passed they made buds but all flowers and buds fell off along with the bottom leaves. Leaves were still green when they fell. Now over a month later I'm seeing small yellow spots with dark brown centers and leaves are curling upward slightly. It's getting paler between the veins. The plants are tall, spindly, leaves are sparse and only a handful of peppers were produced from 18 plants. In the past few weeks the spider mites and whitefly infested them completely and every spray I used failed to make a difference. Ideas anyone? Thoughts? Suggestions? What disease can this be? By this time other years we'd have so many peppers we'd be giving them away - and from no more than 6 to 10 plants. Google is your friend....pepper plants+diseases....first hit of 254,000+ is a site with descriptions and pictures of all the problems you've described. Val > I've already mentioned the problems with our Bell peppers this year. > Whitefly and spider mite but these may not be the whole problem. I've look [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > By this time other years we'd have so many peppers we'd be giving them > away - and from no more than 6 to 10 plants. > Google is your friend....pepper plants+diseases....first hit of 254,000+ > is a site with descriptions and pictures of all the problems you've > described. Which site had the descriptions I described? What is the URL? I waded through many sites before asking here because none mentioned the problem I'm experiencing - and I don't have the time to read 254,000 sites. So which site did you see the answers on? TIA > Val > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> By this time other years we'd have so many peppers we'd be giving them >> away - and from no more than 6 to 10 plants. >> Google is your friend....pepper plants+diseases....first hit of 254,000+ >> is a site with descriptions and pictures of all the problems you've [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm experiencing - and I don't have the time to read 254,000 sites. So > which site did you see the answers on? You didn't even look did you? You haven't "waded" thru anything. No wonder you toss crap all over your garden, fix nothing, destroy much and then whine away about lousy results. OK Marie Dodge, you're either too damned stupid to follow simple instructions or just too f.cking lazy to be even half smart. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and consider you just beyond real damned stupid and give you a direct link to the FIRST HIT you would have got on Google IF you'd put "pepper plants+diseases" in the little search box, which you obviously didn't. Not that you will actually read it, just like you didn't read anything about all that sh.t you have dumped all over God knows what or even actually read **FIRST HIT** in my post. Do you move your lips when you read, Marie? Perhaps if you run your finger under each word and carefully say it out loud it will help with your comprehension...or not. http://plantpathology.tamu.edu/Texlab/Vegetables/peppers/pepper.asp After reading the problems you say you have with your peppers and actually having read the above site I have come to this conclusion: You have, in the most haphazard fashion, poisoned or obliterated anything positive in/on your ground. You garden is rampant with viral, bacterial and fungal disease that has pretty much cancelled out any good trying to bring harmonious balance. You've saved seeds from diseased and weakened plants to perpetuate the horrors of your toxic gardening and any newcomers you plant in that quagmire of festering ilk don't stand a chance. What you are doing 20 years ago would be called ignorance, now it's just blatant stupidity. The fix will require intelligence, commitment, research, patience, and hard work over a period of time, none of these qualities do you seem to possess. You are of the kind Monsanto, Dow and Dupont woo and court because you long for a magic bullet that doesn't exist. You need to sell your place as soon as possible, move to a sub basement apartment with absolutely NO PLACE to even ATTEMPT to grow any living thing, have your groceries delivered and live off of Nuke & Puke dinners, use lots of chemical sprays and cleaning agents in your enclosed environment so you don't go cold turkey on toxins. Then stick a plastic plant in a hunk of Styrofoam on your window sill next to the little ceramic napping cat and call it good. GeeeeeeeeZUZfuckinkeeeeeeryestonacrutch, where is Joe SpareBedroom when I need him!?!? Val >Val You know, a little more fruit in your diet, and you won't be so constipated. Penelope  Signature"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart." "ElissaAnn" <elissa@everybodycansing.com> > >Val > > You know, a little more fruit in your diet, and you won't be so > constipated. > > Penelope When all about you are losing their heads but you stay calm, cool, and collected, maybe you don't understand the problem ;O) The little smiley face is to show one isn't being judgmental ;O) It can take some of the sting out of criticism or teasing. Anyway, what is all this interest that you have in Val's hemorrhoids? ;-) Fruit is too expensive for lubricating one's excrement. Additionally, there is too much sugar for those of us on low-carb, high-fiber diets. If you really want to crank up the muzzle velocity of a BM, you want roots and green leafy vegetables. I know. At my age, a really good BM is almost as good as sex, almost ;O) Save the fruits and nuts for dessert (as one Californian to another). How are the beaches in Santa Monica this year? Have they had to put up pollution signs because of untreated waste? Oh, yeah ;O) Never have that problem up here. If you go in the water, you get hypothermia or great white sharks. If you get sharks, you don't sweat the hypothermia;o) you SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ >When all about you are losing their heads but you stay calm, cool, and >collected, maybe you don't understand the problem ;O) >The little smiley face is to show one isn't being judgmental >;O) It can take some of the sting out of criticism or teasing. The smiley face is: 1. A crutch for the semi-literate duffer who is unable to correctly convey the intent and meaning of his post. 2. A tool for classic bullies, who, being cowards at heart, need a way to weasel out of owning their words. 3. A submissive gesture used to obsequiously deflect potential repercussions. Since you apparently lack the capacity to differentiate defecation from orgasm, I'm leaning towards the first; however, since it is possible that your kink runs that way, I'm keeping an open mind on the subject. >Save the fruits and nuts for dessert (as one Californian to another). To whom are you speaking? >How are the beaches in Santa Monica this year? Have they had to >put up pollution signs because of untreated waste? How would I know? Penelope Signature"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart." "ElissaAnn" <elissa@everybodycansing.com> > >When all about you are losing their heads but you stay calm, cool, and > >collected, maybe you don't understand the problem ;O) [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Penelope You're right, I mis-con-screwed who you are but that is no reason for defecation of character. Chew on some fresh rhubarb. It will "lighten" your attitude;o) (He said with a pejorative intent). SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html >>Val > > You know, a little more fruit in your diet, and you won't be so > constipated. And after reading that site and many more last night... I'm still not sure if it's the insects that did the damage or if the peppers are diseased. Tomorrow we have to bring a soil sample and parts of the peppers and toms to the Ag. Ext. office in the city. > Penelope > >> Google is your friend....pepper plants+diseases....first hit of 254,000+ > >> is a site with descriptions and pictures of all the problems you've [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Val Don't be hard on yourself Val. I don't think Joe could have been any more eloquent than you have. It's hard not to think that "merry dodge" isn't someone's sock puppet, whose sole purpose is to pull our chain. I haven't been following this latest "dodge" adventure and it sounds like you are all over it but I wanted to make sure every sane gardener out there understood this one thing. When mining companies go out of business, they leave behind large piles of tailings (everything except the ore they were after). These tailings end up leaching heavy metals (lead, arsenic, cadmium) into the local watershed. It is usually about this time the the EPA comes around and proclaims the site toxic and puts it on the "Superfund" list. It cost money to clean up "Superfund" sites, so from a purely capitalistic view point you have to take your hats off to the entrepreneurs who took their potentially costly piles of heavy metals, bagged them up, called it fertilizer, and sold it for $12/10 lb. under the name of "Ironite". "They" say that it would take a very long time for the heavy metal load of your garden soil to build up to toxic levels but we all have a "body burden", http://www.bodyburden.org/ , and no sane person would want to add to it. The long and the short of it is that no amount of heavy metals is "good" for a person. Arsenic, cadmium and lead were selected as the potential COCs (Chemicals of concern ) in Ironite® . The concentrations of the COCs that may be present in surface soils following long term application of Ironite® were modeled using a conservative methodology that assumes that Ironite® is applied at the maximum recommended rates suggested on the label. Modeling was conducted using USEPA equations and assumptions. Area specific values were used where necessary. The potentially complete exposure route to the potential COCs in surface soil include ingestion, dermal contact, and inhalation of fugitive dust. http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120# http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/sc/0503/sc0503-ironite.html http://www.envirolaw.org/poison.html njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/soilprofile/sp-v16.pdf Ironite? You can live without it. SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related > Arsenic, cadmium and lead were selected as the potential COCs (Chemicals > of concern ) in Ironite® . The concentrations of the COCs that [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > You can live without it. Yes, but the plants cannot. Our soil was very low in Iron when tested. > > Ironite? > > > > You can live without it. > > Yes, but the plants cannot. Our soil was very low in Iron when tested. Liquid Chelated Iron 32 oz. Price: $10.95 Sulfur Powder 2 lb Price: $4.95 and no heavy metals SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html >> > Ironite? >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sulfur Powder 2 lb Price: $4.95 I have sulfur powder and used it, but it can affect the soil PH whereas Ironite doesn't. There has to be iron in the soil for the sulfur to work. The soils here are very low in Iron. 32 oz of liquid Iron covers how large a garden? We have several vegetable gardens. > and no heavy metals >> > Ironite? >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > and no heavy metals No heavy metals in the sulfur powder either. >I've already mentioned the problems with our Bell peppers this year. >Whitefly and spider mite but these may not be the whole problem. I've look [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >flat, they started to look like seer-sucker, kind of 'puckery' and the >plants failed to make normal growth. This is probably aphid damage. > As the weeks passed they made buds but >all flowers and buds fell off along with the bottom leaves. Leaves were >still green when they fell. You don't say what part of the country you're in, or what your cultivation techniques are, but too much or too little water, cool nights (>50F) or hot nights (<~75F), or too much nitrogen can cause flower drop. Aphids and spider mites can spread diseases, too which can weaken the plants cause the flowers to drop as well. > Now over a month later I'm seeing small yellow >spots with dark brown centers and leaves are curling upward slightly. Are the leaves curling long ways, or tip to stem? Unfortunately the symptoms you're describing could be for several diseases from bacterial spot to Cercospora. Could you post pictures on a site like Photobucket so we can see exactly what you mean? > It's >getting paler between the veins. The plants are tall, spindly, leaves are >sparse and only a handful of peppers were produced from 18 plants. In the >past few weeks the spider mites and whitefly infested them completely and >every spray I used failed to make a difference. Ideas anyone? Thoughts? >Suggestions? What disease can this be? The problem with spraying is that it kills the insect predators as well as the pests, and the pests bounce back faster. The best way to control aphids is to release lady bugs and stand back. They won't clear out the aphids over night or kill all the aphids, but they'll keep them under control. I'm also wondering what you're using for fertilizer. I ask because aphids are attracted to plants given high nitrogen fertilizers. >By this time other years we'd have so many peppers we'd be giving them >away - and from no more than 6 to 10 plants. It's been a slow year for my plants; pepper, tomato, and egg plant. I was hand watering at the beginning of the season because of drought and watering restrictions, and I think they just needed more water than hand watering could supply. Once we started having rain, they took off, and are producing enough to make up for lost time. The tomatoes and eggplants are coming in thick and fast, and the peppers aren't far behind. Penelope Signature"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart." "ElissaAnn" <elissa@everybodycansing.com> >>I've already mentioned the problems with our Bell peppers this year. >>Whitefly and spider mite but these may not be the whole problem. I've look [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > This is probably aphid damage. I dug out my old microscope and found some kind of beige colored mites under the leaves. Also, the whitefly nymphs at still there. Nothing the Ag agent recommended worked on either of them. Numbers are down, but they're still infesting the plants. >> As the weeks passed they made buds but >>all flowers and buds fell off along with the bottom leaves. Leaves were >>still green when they fell. > You don't say what part of the country you're in, or what your > cultivation techniques are, but too much or too little water, cool > nights (>50F) or hot nights (<~75F), or too much nitrogen can cause > flower drop. Aphids and spider mites can spread diseases, too which > can weaken the plants cause the flowers to drop as well. I'm in the mid south, zone 6 where summers are long. hot, humid and often lacking rain. The garden is in sun most of the day and contains a lot of organic matter in the form of last years leaves and rotted down weeds, kitchen waste etc. There are few weeds and I pull them as soon as I see them. Plants are watered as needed. I've been gardening for many years and never experienced anything like this before. >> Now over a month later I'm seeing small yellow >>spots with dark brown centers and leaves are curling upward slightly. > > Are the leaves curling long ways, or tip to stem? The long way but they also look puckered, like seer-sucker material. Today I see they're yellowing. > Unfortunately the symptoms you're describing could be for several > diseases from bacterial spot to Cercospora. Could you post pictures on > a site like Photobucket so we can see exactly what you mean? Yes,.... I'll take some pics of the plants and get back here with them. >> It's >>getting paler between the veins. The plants are tall, spindly, leaves are >>sparse and only a handful of peppers were produced from 18 plants. In the >>past few weeks the spider mites and whitefly infested them completely and >>every spray I used failed to make a difference. Ideas anyone? Thoughts? >>Suggestions? What disease can this be? > The problem with spraying is that it kills the insect predators as > well as the pests, and the pests bounce back faster. The best way to > control aphids is to release lady bugs and stand back. They won't > clear out the aphids over night or kill all the aphids, but they'll > keep them under control. There are no aphids. Just white fly and spider mites. The underside of the leaves were completely covered on some of the plants. I tried lady bugs some years ago when we did have aphids, and they were gone the next day... leaving the aphids behind. > I'm also wondering what you're using for fertilizer. I ask because > aphids are attracted to plants given high nitrogen fertilizers. What aphids? There are no aphids. I can't afford fish fertilizers. We're retired and on a limited income. >>By this time other years we'd have so many peppers we'd be giving them >>away - and from no more than 6 to 10 plants. > It's been a slow year for my plants; pepper, tomato, and egg plant. I > was hand watering at the beginning of the season because of drought [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tomatoes and eggplants are coming in thick and fast, and the peppers > aren't far behind. Rain would certainly help since I've been watering them twice a week with the hose. But as long as the whitefly and spider mites are infesting them I doubt they'll produce much. Nothing recommended got rid of the infestation. > Penelope > >>I've already mentioned the problems with our Bell peppers this year. > >>Whitefly and spider mite but these may not be the whole problem. I've look [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > > Penelope Perhaps worth a try. Bill ............. <http://www.seedsofchange.com/enewsletter/issue_28/issue_28.aspProtect> Your Crops Sanely and Humanely Hot Pepper Wax Capsaicin, the ingredient in hot peppers that gives them heat, is a powerful feeding deterrent and will even kill many insect pests. Hot pepper wax is a formulation containing capsaicin, which can be sprayed regularly on plants to prevent damage from aphids, whiteflies, spider mites, thrips, leafhoppers, scales and many other soft-bodied insects. It can also be used as a feeding deterrent for rabbits and deer. Waxes in the mixture help the spray stick to leaves making it last up to two weeks. Be sure to respray newly emerged leaves during that time period. And don't worry, the pepper spray washes off easily enough that it won't linger after harvest. SignatureGarden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA Big brevity snip. > Perhaps worth a try. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > And don't worry, the pepper spray washes off easily enough that it won't > linger after harvest. I hesitate to buy even more products since nothing has worked so far. The Neem Oil (about $12) was supposed to work and didn't. Rotenone (around $9) didn't work... couldn't find pyrethrum. The light summer oil ($10) was supposed to work. I have about 8 things here (over $90 w/chemicals) and none made more than a small difference in the whitefly and mite populations. The pests must be gaining immunity to the organic pesticides as they have the chemicals. My gardens are large and it's now starting to run into a lot of money - and there's little improvement. > Big brevity snip. > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > none made more than a small difference in the whitefly and mite populations. > The pests must be gaining immunity to the organic pesticides as they have > the chemicals. My gardens are large and it's now starting to run into a lot > of money - and there's little improvement. <http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/product.aspx?scommand=search&search=p yrethrum&item=637> <http://www.biconet.com/botanicals/rps.html> Sounds like you have a challenge. Best practice may be to go fallow. Best Bill Ps Rotenone has human health issues. Big ones! SignatureGarden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA >> Big brevity snip. >> > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Sounds like you have a challenge. Best practice may be to go fallow. As I mentioned somewhere here,.. this garden laid fallow 2 years due to an accident I had. Several surgeries on my knee and physical rehab kept me out of the garden. I'm surrounded by woodland and fields... and both are full of insects and bugs. Virus and bacterial diseases have not been a problem. I never saw whitefly here before, or spider-mites. The biggest pests were a few Japanese beetles and the ubiquitous SVB. Aphids one year when we lived in town. I believe the spidermites came in on a gift palm I recieved last winter. It was incurable so I trashed it this spring. Most likely not before a few mites fell of it.......... :( The whitefly probably came in on one of the seedlings I bought last spring. Thanks for the URLs. > Best > > Bill > > Ps Rotenone has human health issues. Big ones! Marie Dodge said: >I believe the spidermites came in on a gift palm I recieved last winter. It >was incurable so I trashed it this spring. Most likely not before a few >mites fell of it.......... :( The whitefly probably came in on one of >the seedlings I bought last spring. There's an old remedy for spider mites that might be worth a try, and might not be too expensive. It combines wheat flour, buttermilk, and water. The Organic Method Primer recommends it, and various proportions are mentioned. Here's a recipe from a website: 1/8 cup buttermilk 1 cup wheat flour 1-1/4 gallons of water http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/gt_organic/article/0,2029,DIY_13864_5693956,00.html SignaturePat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. > Marie Dodge said: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/gt_organic/article/0,2029,DIY_13864_5693956,00.html Have you found any of these concoctions to work for you? So far the only thing I've seen make any difference this past week is called Organocide. I got it at Lowe's. It's made with fish oil and smells like Cod Liver Oil. We went to the Extension Office today with samples from our garden. The agent didn't find signs of anything but whitefly and 2-spot spider mites. He said they were the worst infested leaves he ever saw. We have to stop making our own compost because there is no real way to kill them off in compost. I could spread the problem all over the property with compost from the gardens. He told us of a place we can get all the free stuff to compost we can haul away. We're going to burn the entire pile we now have and get the shredded stuff he told us about. Marie Dodge said: >> There's an old remedy for spider mites that might be worth a try, and >> might not be too expensive. It combines wheat flour, buttermilk, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Have you found any of these concoctions to work for you? This one, no, but I have had people say it did work for them. And it even turns up on some extension service websites: http://everest.ento.vt.edu/~idlab/vegpests/vegfs/spidermites.html And the following article references a study which found that "(f)our applications have been shown to kill 95 % of red spider mite infestation." http://www.infonet-biovision.org/default/ct/236/recipesForOrganicPesticides But having seed your pictures (after my post) it looks like your infestation is so bad that burning everything would be the best thing at this point. I'd maybe even consider running a flame over every inch of garden. Then hit every dormant shrub or tree in the vicinity of the garden with some dormant sprays of oil before they break bud next spring. Then maybe hit the area with lime sulfur after bud break: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6oozzc = http://www.infrc.jp/english/KNF_Data_Base_Web/PDF%20KNF%20Conf%20Data/C6-6-238.pdf SignaturePat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. > Marie Dodge said: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > turns up on some extension service websites: > http://everest.ento.vt.edu/~idlab/vegpests/vegfs/spidermites.html OK. I'm sure it did. Unfortunately none of the organic products or concoctions have ever worked for us. Many people claim Neem Oil worked for them and it did nothing to even slow them down in my garden. I threw away another $10, $12 for the Neem Oil. The light oil "Organicide" did damage the plants as I thought it might. The mites continue on but the white fly population was cut by maybe 25%. Hardly worth the expense. I would like to know what organic or inorganic actually works on mites other than Kelthane which I can't get anymore. Kelthane was the only product I ever had that killed the mites in two sprayings. > And the following article references a study which found that "(f)our > applications > have been shown to kill 95 % of red spider mite infestation." > http://www.infonet-biovision.org/default/ct/236/recipesForOrganicPesticides Actually it says: "Flour preparations Flour mixed in water *is said to be* very effective against aphids and spider mites.." I'm curious, said by who? Where were the experiments done and by who? I couldn't find any further information. > But having seed your pictures (after my post) it looks like your > infestation is > so bad that burning everything would be the best thing at this point. I'd > maybe > even consider running a flame over every inch of garden. No one I know has ever seen such an infestation of whitefly and spider mite, including the extension agent. The heat, low humidity and lack of rain is certainly contributing to this infestation. In fact it's spreading across the grass, other wild plants and the trees on the property around us. It's spread to the flower beds. At this point trying to control the mite and w/flies is a waste of time. > Then hit every dormant shrub or tree in the vicinity of the garden with > some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > = > http://www.infrc.jp/english/KNF_Data_Base_Web/PDF%20KNF%20Conf%20Data/C6-6-238.pdf We live out in the country so that's impossible. We're surrounded by woodland and underbrush, weeds and wildflowers. It would take thousands of dollars and aerial spraying would be required. But thanks for the info..... Marie Dodge said: >> Marie Dodge said: In reference to wheat flour/buttermilk mite remedy: >>>Have you found any of these concoctions to work for you? >> >> This one, no, but I have had people say it did work for them. Actually, I should have said "no, I've never used it myself." I rarely use any pesticides these day, and even those are mainly limited to soap and pyrethrin. >Many people claim Neem Oil worked for >them and it did nothing to even slow them down in my garden. Neem oil has some very few legitimate uses but is touted as a panacea. And there is no such thing as a panacea. I would have warned you off that... >I would like to >know what organic or inorganic actually works on mites other than >Kelthane >which I can't get anymore. Kelthane was the only product I ever had that >killed the mites in two sprayings. Lime sulfur, maybe, as per info at: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6oozzc (Lime sulfur is a long-standing remedy for a long list of mites, including mange mites and chiggers as well as horticultural pests.) BUT! I wouldn't expect any remedy (even Kelthane, if you could get it) to help at this point. But dusts (flour or mineral) are legitimate remedies for insects and mite pests. Call them 'particle films' and they even sound ...exciting: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6j3m22 Which takes you to: http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/person/2017/Book%20Chapter% 20Particle%20Film%20Technolgy.pdf That document contains the following line: "Although not mineral-based, Ghate and Marshall (1962) suppressed eggs and mobile forms of European red mite and two-spotted spider mites with a combination of buttermilk and wheat flour." The kaolin-based product, Surround (R), which is mention in the document cited above, is available mail-order to home gardeners from various places (if anyone is interested). >> Then hit every dormant shrub or tree in the vicinity of the garden with >> some [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >thousands of >dollars and aerial spraying would be required. But thanks for the info..... Hell, even people who *don't* live out in the country are surrounded by other peoples yards with plenty of trees, bushes, weeds and flowers which are *completely* beyond their control, let alone being beyond their *budget*! Why did you assume I meant such a hugely extensive action? Perhaps I should have thrown in the word "immediate" before "vicinity." As in, if you have a row of raspberries, or a hedge row, or a couple of peach trees next to the garden, spray *them* (they almost certainly need the protection, after what's happened this year). Next year, you will need to invest in prevention, which is always less expensive and more effective than trying to cure. (Prevention is less expensive, though not FREE.) Right now you are hit hard with "throwing good money after bad" regret/anger, and the fact that the most reasonable action at this point is to destroy everything you planted for this year, which hurts. HURTS BIGTIME! SignaturePat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. > But thanks for the info..... I'll second that. Very informative post. Thank you Pat. SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html > Marie Dodge said: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > use any pesticides these day, and even those are mainly limited to soap > and pyrethrin. I know what you mean. I seldom had bug/insect problems in my gardens. This is the first wf and sm I've ever seen here. Usually just a few tomato horn worms, a squash bug or two and a couple Japanese beetles... they've never been a problem. Only SBV are here every year. >>Many people claim Neem Oil worked for >>them and it did nothing to even slow them down in my garden. > > Neem oil has some very few legitimate uses but is touted as a panacea. > And there is no such thing as a panacea. I would have warned you off > that... I have no way to know who tried the products they recommend and who just makes suggestions because someone told them it worked for their brother's sister-in-law's tenant's daughter.... you know what I mean. >>I would like to >>know what organic or inorganic actually works on mites other than [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > (Lime sulfur is a long-standing remedy for a long list of mites, including > mange mites and chiggers as well as horticultural pests.) After looking at the one garden today I don't think it would matter anymore. The season ends here in Mid October. There's no time left to get a pepper crop. The damage to the plants is too severe. Too many weeks wasted trying things people recommended that didn't work, or barely worked. The smelly Organicide is slowing working, but it's too late now. It will take to long. > BUT! I wouldn't expect any remedy (even Kelthane, if you could get it) to > help at this point. But dusts (flour or mineral) are legitimate remedies [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/6j3m22 I would love to find an organic answer. Very interesting read. Thanks. :^) > Which takes you to: > http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/person/2017/Book%20Chapter% [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > document cited above, is available mail-order to home gardeners from > various places (if anyone is interested). I'll look for it locally. Shipping today often costs more than or the same as the product itself. And at this point these plants are hardly worth pouring more money on. >>We live out in the country so that's impossible. We're surrounded by >>woodland and underbrush, weeds and wildflowers. It would take [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > which are *completely* beyond their control, let alone being beyond their > *budget*! Why did you assume I meant such a hugely extensive action? Sorry, must have misunderstood you. > Perhaps I should have thrown in the word "immediate" before "vicinity." > As in, if you have a row of raspberries, or a hedge row, or a couple > of peach trees next to the garden, spray *them* (they almost certainly > need the protection, after what's happened this year). Oh... OK. Gotcha. :^) > Next year, you will need to invest in prevention, which is always less > expensive and more effective than trying to cure. (Prevention is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > HURTS BIGTIME! Yep, it's got one week for us to see serious improvement. If none, then everything from that garden is being burned, cremated. The ashes will be spread out by the road. We're not using anything from the gardens for compost this year. We found a place to get loads of mulch to compost from the city. It's all shredded tree limbs, bark and leaves. Next year I'll start spraying the plants the day I set them out. >No one I know has ever seen such an infestation of whitefly and spider mite, >including the extension agent. Do they make dark shadows on your screens at night? Do you have to wear a bandana when you're working in the garden to avoid ingesting bunches of whiteflies with each breath? Do they make pretty abstract patterns on the wall of the house where the morning sun first hits? Cause, that's what it was like when I moved into this house in June of 2001. Something was clearly out of whack with the food chain for such an explosion of the white fly population. And...<spit!> thrips, they were just not as obvious at first. So, I started releasing lacewings. The yard was horribly overgrown, so I also cut back or completely down shrubs and weedy trees that looked like they were especially overwhelmed by the whiteflies. I released some ladybugs, too, and the next spring released more lacewings and ladybugs. I talked to my neighbors with varying success about not using broad spectrum pesticides, and made sure they all knew what ladybug and lacewing larva looked like. It took 2 years (and 3 summers) but things finally swung back into better balance. I still get a whitefly outbreak every summer, but I put yellow sticky traps out around the garden for a little extra protection, and let nature take its course elsewhere. Of course, I get all tingly and feel like an Uber Garden Geek when I find ladybug eggs or lacewing larva on a plant that has whitefly. I've been down right orgasmic over the proliferation of squirrel treefrogs this year, too. > The heat, low humidity and lack of rain is >certainly contributing to this infestation. In fact it's spreading across >the grass, other wild plants and the trees on the property around us. It's >spread to the flower beds. At this point trying to control the mite and >w/flies is a waste of time. Yeah, we were in our fifth year of drought when I moved out here. I'm sure that contributed to the pest explosion. Penelope SignatureYou have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years. - "pointed" <poppypurity@yahoo.com> >>No one I know has ever seen such an infestation of whitefly and spider >>mite, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to wear a bandana when you're working in the garden to avoid > ingesting bunches of whiteflies with each breath? Yes. I must use a bandanna not to inhale them. I haven't looked at the window screens at night. Do they make > pretty abstract patterns on the wall of the house where the > morning sun first hits? Cause, that's what it was like when I > moved into this house in June of 2001. The type we have do not leave the plants. > Something was clearly out of whack with the food chain for such > an explosion of the white fly population. And...<spit!> thrips, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > whiteflies. I released some ladybugs, too, and the next spring > released more lacewings and ladybugs. As I mentioned in another post. My ex-husband released these same "beneficials" plus a third (I can't recall the 3rd one) in the old garden where I used to live. In 48 hours we couldn't find one left! Not one, but the pests were still there. And even back then they were expensive. How did you keep them from flying away? I talked to my neighbors > with varying success about not using broad spectrum pesticides, > and made sure they all knew what ladybug and lacewing larva [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that has whitefly. I've been down right orgasmic over the > proliferation of squirrel treefrogs this year, too. I'd like to know how you kept them in your garden. I know my ex-husband was bitterly disappointed they were all gone in 2 or maybe 3 days leaving him with a nice charge on his chargecard and the pests still there to deal with. I'm not sure what all was infesting that garden but do remember the cucumber beetles, root worms on the root crops, corn ear worms, SVBs, tomato horn worms and something that about wiped out the asparagus as he waited for the beneficials to arrive. He bought some pesticide from a local Co-op and sprayed the garden several times.... but that was apparently before all these insects and bugs developed immunity because it took care of the problem quickly. I remember the corn, rootcrops and squash being a total loss. He sprayed them too late but we did save the other crops. >> The heat, low humidity and lack of rain is >>certainly contributing to this infestation. In fact it's spreading across [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Yeah, we were in our fifth year of drought when I moved out here. > I'm sure that contributed to the pest explosion. Something is, that's for sure. Oddly enough the two older gardens only have whitefly and are still producing. The garden with the spider-mite and WF is a total loss - and that's the new garden that laid fallow two years due to my accident. It's never been sprayed with anything. > Penelope Hi All, >>>No one I know has ever seen such an infestation of whitefly and spider >>>mite, [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > WF is a total loss - and that's the new garden that laid fallow two years > due to my accident. It's never been sprayed with anything. Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. Richard M. Watkin. >> Penelope > Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. What is "washing up liquid" and why would it work when the other organic pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments were done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP? >> Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. >> > What is "washing up liquid" and why would it work when the other organic > pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments > were done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP? Soap you use for washing. You make a spray and wash away the aphids and other little buggers. Organic is great. Try Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap. Kills them dead. Or instead of poison, a cheaper alternative would be "Joy" or "Dawn". Whatever liquid dish soap you use for hand washing. If you get a sprayer, you can do it larger scale. Look for the problems, and spray/wash them away. p.s. Dish soap water also makes an excellent wasp killer. You can spray a nest overhead, with no worries about overspray. They can't fly, drop to the ground instantly, and die in seconds. http://www.drbronner.com/ stonerfish >>> Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Soap you use for washing. You make a spray and wash away the aphids and > other little buggers. How do YOU wash them away in your gardens with detergents? Do you have a special high power sprayer made for such sprays? How do you kill them when they hit the ground? Step on them all? If you don't kill them once washed off they'll crawl and fly right back onto the plants. How do you manage to use enough pressure to dislodge them and not shread the leaves? Organic is great. Try Dr. Bronner's peppermint > soap. Kills them dead. So you tried this Peppermint soap on both 2-spot-SpiderMites and Whitefly? Don't you remember I was told the other organic products would kill them dead and not one worked as claimed? Since all the other organic products failed, why would you think this one would work? Or instead of poison, a cheaper alternative > would be "Joy" or "Dawn". Whatever liquid dish soap you use for hand > washing. If you get a sprayer, you can do it larger scale. Look for the > problems, and spray/wash them away. How did you wash them away? How many pounds of pressure did it take to dislodge your spider mites and whitefly? How did you wash off the nymphs without shredding the leaves due to pressure? Since you believe these organic potions work, please explain why all the others failed and how many more will be recommended as long as a person keeps trying them? Just wondering. :) From the website... this sounds like typical snake-oil: Dr. Bronner’s is Celebrating Our 60th Anniversary! 5 Generations and 150 Years of Soapmaking Excellence Marking the 60th Anniversary of the company, *Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps* is pleased to announce that all classic liquid & bar soaps......... > p.s. Dish soap water also makes an excellent wasp killer. You can > spray a nest overhead, with no worries about overspray. They can't fly, > drop to the ground instantly, and die in seconds. Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an organic site selling "magic soaps?" > http://www.drbronner.com/ > > stonerfish Marie Dodge said: >Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you >done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an >organic site selling "magic soaps?" Now you even have me believing you are in this for the trolling. Lady, soap solution kills insects. Kills them fast. Soap kills earwigs lickety split, even though actual over-the-counter poisons barely slow them down.. You have to be sure to cover them with soap spray. I have personally murdered hosts of earwigs and aphids with soap. And I have accidentally killed a few bees with it. If someone says he's killed wasps with soap spray, I'm inclined to believe him. The only caution is that soap can also damage plant leaves. And the solutionto *that* is to come back around and rinse the plants off after the pests are killed. Cornell sez: Insecticidal soap products work by smothering soft bodied pests and disrupting their cuticle layer. In order to be effective, it is necessary to thoroughly coat the pest. After the soap dries on the plant surface, insects and mites will not pick up a lethal dose. http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/resourceguide/mfs/12soap.php SignaturePat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. > Marie Dodge said: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Now you even have me believing you are in this for the trolling. Why? Because I ask questions after taking people's advice here and the products recommended no working? Why can't you accept the truth? Why should people keep going out and buying one product after the other when none worked before? Your ignorance is really surprising since the nymphs of these insects cannot be "washed off" like bits of mud or leaf litter. > Lady, soap solution kills insects. Kills them fast. Soap kills earwigs > lickety split, even though actual over-the-counter poisons barely slow > them down.. You have to be sure to cover them with soap spray. > I have personally murdered hosts of earwigs and aphids with soap. > And I have accidentally killed a few bees with it. If someone says > he's killed wasps with soap spray, I'm inclined to believe him. So non-toxic common soap kills them dead but no one knows this but a few people on Usenet? If soap killed silverleaf-whitefly and 2-spot spider mite dead, it would be well known all over the world by now. Thee two pests alone do millions of dollars worth of damage every year, both in the USA and SA. But no one but a few people here know soap kills them? > The only caution is that soap can also damage plant leaves. And the > solutionto *that* is to come back around and rinse the plants off after > the pests are killed. To use enough pressure to dislodge the nymphs of WF and SMs will itself damage the leaves, shred them if not knock them off the plants completely. So tell them..... how much soap is used per gallon? At sundown I used a new sprayer and sprayed the plants with 1 TBS per gallon soap and 1 TBS per gallon flour as per one of the people here. All the WF and SP should be dead and gone in the morning according to you. You claim the soap will kill them dead whereas the nothing else did. We'll see. > Cornell sez: > Insecticidal soap products work by smothering soft bodied pests and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > insects > and mites will not pick up a lethal dose. Soap is cheap. I soaked the plants completely, top and bottom of the all leaves the spray wand reached - right down to the ground. > http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/resourceguide/mfs/12soap.php The link above couldn't be reached (see below). I can't wait to read why farmers are losing millions of dollars a year to WF and SP by refusing to use Soap to kill them. Neem Oil is also supposed to kill them. Maybe I'll learn why they're not using that either but rather take great losses. Network Error (tcp_error) A communication error occurred: "Operation timed out" The Web Server may be down, too busy, or experiencing other problems preventing it from responding to requests. You may wish to try again at a later time. > Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you > done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an > organic site selling "magic soaps?" The soap makes the water wetter. It soaks into their skin and they die. I think maybe they breath through their skin and this makes them drown. I don't know what happens, just that the soap kills them, and they are dead. And you don't need special soap for aphids or white flies. Because my friend is worried about chemicals, we used Dr. Bronners on her iris's, and gave them a quick wipe between fingers. Also we misted her mint and rosemary, with now fear of using them in the future. The white fly infestation is now gone. Now, about the wasps. My job is construction. Many times, when working at someones house, I will encounter a wasp nest. Someone showed me the soapy water trick many years ago. Fill a pan or large bowl with soapy water. Fling it on the wasp nest. Done. stonerfish >> Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you >> done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > rosemary, with now fear of using them in the future. The white fly > infestation is now gone. Well I sprayed all three gardens with Soap and flour as suggested here. I had nothng to lose since these products were in my home and are both cheap. We'll see if soap killed them.... in fact I'm taking the flashlight out there now and looking. OK... the plants were sprayed around 7 PM with 1 TBS each of flour and handsoap (Palmolive) per gallon of water in a brand new sprayer with a larger tip. Both sides of the leaves were sprayed. Sprayed were collards, jewel peppers, chard, tomatoes and a Ichabon eggplant. Only the Chard had spider mites and only a few plants are infested so far. The WF and SMs are still there and are alive. I could see them moving, walking over the residue of soap and flour when disturbed. They will not fly at night. They had 6 hours now to suffocate and die. The flour was supposed to somehow kill them also. The whole garden smells faintly of soap but I guess that's better than the Organicide which smelled like fish and didn't kill/smother them either. I'm just wondering what will be said next.... that it's the wrong brand of flour, the wrong kind of soap, wrong brand of soap and flour, wrong aroma, constancy of soap.....? I'm sure you can see my point. The second garden is now being destroyed by these pests and so far nothing had worked. Not one of you purely Organic people have explained why the Neem Oil, the Phyrethrum and the Organicide didn't do them any harm either. What's left to recommend now? How many more organic options are left? > Now, about the wasps. My job is construction. Many times, when working > at someones house, I will encounter a wasp nest. Someone showed me the > soapy water trick many years ago. Fill a pan or large bowl with soapy > water. Fling it on the wasp nest. Done. I can't try it on wasps since we don't have any here at the moment. But since the soap and flour didn't kill the WF and SMs, I would have to be out of my mind to toss it on wasps. You really need to tell people to try it on insects not dangerous to themselves before recommending they toss it on wasps. When it fails to kill the wasps as it did the WF and SMs, and the person is stung, they can go into shock and die. > stonerfish >>> Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you >>> done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > cheap. We'll see if soap killed them.... in fact I'm taking the > flashlight out there now and looking. Flour? I don't ever remember suggesting flour. Sounds messy. > OK... the plants were sprayed around 7 PM with 1 TBS each of flour and > handsoap (Palmolive) per gallon of water in a brand new sprayer with a > larger tip. Both sides of the leaves were sprayed. Sprayed were > collards, jewel peppers, chard, tomatoes and a Ichabon eggplant. Only > the Chard had spider mites and only a few plants are infested so far. Ok, so you have some time and a flashlight. Wash the few plants with mites. Then do it again the next night. I don't know what the flour will do, except make things messy. > The WF and SMs are still there and are alive. I could see them moving, > walking over the residue of soap and flour when disturbed. They will [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Phyrethrum and the Organicide didn't do them any harm either. What's > left to recommend now? How many more organic options are left? I don't know what to tell you. It seems like the bugs are your enemy. In your other post, where you mention birds, it sounds like they are your enemy too. Maybe you should go with astro-turf. >> Now, about the wasps. My job is construction. Many times, when > You really need to tell people to > try it on insects not dangerous to themselves before recommending they > toss it on wasps. When it fails to kill the wasps as it did the WF and > SMs, and the person is stung, they can go into shock and die. Be afraid, be very afraid..... >> stonerfish > >> Now, about the wasps. My job is construction. Many times, when > > You really need to tell people to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > Be afraid, be very afraid..... Some wasps are pollinators, aren't they? You kind of have to stay away from certain plants at certain times of the day. Black-eyed peas are a good example. Ours are always full of wasps in the morning. Gosh I hate getting stung by a wasp. It's an awful feeling unlike anything else. I have often accidentally reached for a bumblebee when picking blackberries but at least they start to rumble and buzz as you reach out to touch them. None have yet stung me. They are amazingly soft to the touch... lol. My husband ran over a wasp nest with the tractor and they stung the hell out him. The kind that nests in the ground is rather vicious. Isabella Signature"I will show you fear in a handful of dust" -T.S. Eliot > > Now, about the wasps. My job is construction. Many times, when working > > at someones house, I will encounter a wasp nest. Someone showed me the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > wasps. When it fails to kill the wasps as it did the WF and SMs, and the > person is stung, they can go into shock and die. Who said soap and flour? And how did you manage to spray a nozzle clogging soap and flour mixture, anyway? Soap, has worked for us on the rare occasion we've needed it. As for wasps and bees... Bees, you leave alone for obvious reasons except when there's a hive in an inconvenient place because bee hives keep growing. Wasps, you leave alone because they're predators and __pollinators__ and most helpful with cabbage worms etc. except when their hive or nesting site is in a very inconvenient place. ...and with wasps, if you're persistent, a jet of water will knock down and destroy most nests and they'll give up and build elsewhere. Yellow jackets underground. This isn't something I'd recommend, but I've removed wasp nests by just scraping them off or out with my Japanese farmer's knife. Finally, with wasps, leaving a good sized, dead, nest in place may keep other wasps from building. I left one beautiful, complete, paper wasp nest inside our garden shed and they've not tried to build anything in there in the past couple of years. Hi Marie, >> Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. > > What is "washing up liquid" and why would it work when the other organic > pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments > were done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP? It is a liquid soap used for washing dishes in the U, K. It works for me that is all I can say. How it works I do not know. Hope this helps you. Richard M. Watkin. > Hi Marie, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments >> were done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP? > It is a liquid soap used for washing dishes in the U, K. It works for me > that is all I can say. How it works I do not know. Hope this helps you. Do you know what chemicals are in your soap there? The soap here in the USA doesn't kill them. I used Palmolive at the recommended dose. After 7 hours the SMs and WF are still there and still alive. > Richard M. Watkin. >Actually it says: "Flour preparations Flour mixed in water *is said to be* >very effective against aphids and spider mites.." I'm curious, said by who? You might be interested in an aphid spray I use. 1 part denatured alcohol + 3 parts water. Spray onto the pests. They cease moving immediately, and more importantly, never move again. I have not found it to harm any plants, but there is nothing stopping you hosing it off 10 mins after applying if you wish, as by then it has done its job. As always, it would be wise to do a test spraying on just one plant initially, and then on the others 2 or 3 days later. I've found it ideal for killing aphids clustered on the tender new tips of plants such as roses and lemons. Denatured alcohol is called "methylated spirits" here in Australia. It's just ethyl alcohol with a trace amount of an evil-tasting stuff to stop people drinking it and evading the alcohol tax. (You could use cheap vodka in place of the alcohol I suppose!!) You could try it on spider mite. I have used it on small grubs, but doubt that it would kill whitefly. >We live out in the country so that's impossible. We're surrounded by >woodland and underbrush, weeds and wildflowers. It would take thousands of >dollars and aerial spraying would be required. But thanks for the info..... I read that aphids can over-winter on thistles. Skeptical, next winter I took a closer look. They sure do: the leaves were thick with aphids. Then I found one milk thistle with no aphids on its leaves. I pulled it up and found its roots clad in an overcoat with aphids! So one measure you could take is to make sure there are no milk thistles in fallow parts of your garden. SignatureJohn Savage (my news address is not valid for email) >>Actually it says: "Flour preparations Flour mixed in water *is said to be* >>very effective against aphids and spider mites.." I'm curious, said by [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > days later. I've found it ideal for killing aphids clustered on the tender > new tips of plants such as roses and lemons. Thanks for the info John. Aphids haven't been a problem here at all but will try it if some appear. I haven't seen an aphid in ages. The 2-spotted spider mite and common Whitefly appear to be immune to everything including oils (summer and Neem). Today I noticed my prize Gardenia on the back porch has MEALY BUGS!!!!!!!! :*( > Denatured alcohol is called "methylated spirits" here in Australia. It's > just ethyl alcohol with a trace amount of an evil-tasting stuff to stop [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > take is to make sure there are no milk thistles in fallow parts of your > garden. > Unfortunately the symptoms you're describing could be for several > diseases from bacterial spot to Cercospora. Could you post pictures on > a site like Photobucket so we can see exactly what you mean? This was taken the end of June. You can see the peppers are tall, thin and don't look normal. The tomatoes are still healthy. they're Romas, EarlyGirls and Better Boys. Peppers are mixed Bells: http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee355/Greengarden_2008/summer2008-28.jpg Here's a close up taken yesterday. No peppers and perhaps one flower. All flowers and buds turn brown and fall off. The plants still have white fly and a light mite load. Organics and chemicals didn't do much. http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee355/Greengarden_2008/summer2008-15.jpg This was taken yesterday.You can see the devastation to the tomatoes from the WF and SMs. http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee355/Greengarden_2008/summer2008-16.jpg The two eggplants are totally infested with mites and WF. The "eggs" stopped growing. http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee355/Greengarden_2008/summer2008-17.jpg Another shot: http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee355/Greengarden_2008/summer2008-18.jpg This is what the WFs did to the string beans. http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee355/Greengarden_2008/summer2008-12.jpg I have no idea why these crooknecks suffer from. Their leaves are silvery white. They have only a few WF and no mites. They're not near the gardens. http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee355/Greengarden_2008/summer2008-13.jpg I've been gardening since the late 1950s and never seen anything like this before. The other two gardens are still OK but it's only a matter of time before the spider mites get to them - one way or another. marie: It sounds like you ruined your plants with all the sprays. you need to read a good book about integrated pest management, and realize that most sprays have adverse impacts. you obviously have no clue of the cumulative adverse impacts of all the chemicals you used. those plants are living things, not machines. Think for a minute, if you are klilling your plants, what it will do to you to eat those peppers? then think about all the money you wasted growing toxic peppers. I have grown large quantitites of peppers for over 30 years with no pesticides and only year had a virus problem late in the season associated with unusual cold and wet weather. Mites and whiteflies should not be a problem outdoors, their natural enemies will take care of them, but you killed their natural enemies. remove and compost your plants, forget about mites. and plant hairy vetch as a cover crop to prepare for next year. > I've already mentioned the problems with our Bell peppers this year. > Whitefly and spider mite but these may not be the whole problem. I've look [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > By this time other years we'd have so many peppers we'd be giving them > away - and from no more than 6 to 10 plants. > marie: > It sounds like you ruined your plants with all the sprays. Uh no, what ruined them is using useless organic sprays and powders, allowing the pests to reach proportions that no chemical can now control. By the time I turned to chemicals it was too late. The plants were too far gone with spider mites and the w/flies to save. Pro-organic rant snipped. |
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