Steer compost in garden
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Zootal - 17 Jul 2008 20:36 GMT There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and heap it on the ground around plants and trees?
Zootal - 17 Jul 2008 22:01 GMT I have a truckload of the stuff sitting out front. It looks like slightly dried and aged steer manure, I'm not sure how much it's been "composted". I'm guessing it might be a bit hot and should be used sparingly. Anyone have experience with this stuff?
> There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer > compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and > heap it on the ground around plants and trees? Bill - 17 Jul 2008 22:27 GMT > I have a truckload of the stuff sitting out front. It looks like slightly > dried and aged steer manure, I'm not sure how much it's been "composted". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and > > heap it on the ground around plants and trees? Dump it into a pyramid shaped pile. Add two steer horns and cover with a tarp. Remove in 3 .3 decades and spread it about . The horns should be filled with sand.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner>
Na just spread the sh.t about. You seem to be well on your way.
Bill who has a horn in water in my basement for about 30 years.
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Billy - 18 Jul 2008 02:08 GMT > I have a truckload of the stuff sitting out front. It looks like slightly > dried and aged steer manure, I'm not sure how much it's been "composted". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and > > heap it on the ground around plants and trees? Take a look at http://www.ext.colostate.edu/Pubs/foodnut/09369.html You probably don't want to use it on anything that you'll be harvesting in the next three months, if it hasn't been commercially composted, i.e. done in very large lots to generate the heat needed to kill pathogens.
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FarmI - 18 Jul 2008 03:21 GMT "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly-
>> I have a truckload of the stuff sitting out front. It looks like slightly >> dried and aged steer manure, I'm not sure how much it's been "composted". [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > in the next three months, if it hasn't been commercially composted, i.e. > done in very large lots to generate the heat needed to kill pathogens. Sunlight and soil biota are also good destroyers of pathogens. http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/publicconcerns/cwa01s11.html
Billy - 18 Jul 2008 06:21 GMT In article <487ffe45$0$29851$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly- > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Sunlight and soil biota are also good destroyers of pathogens. > http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/publicconcerns/cwa01s11.html If given 3 - 4 months of warm summer days ;-)
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Billy - 17 Jul 2008 22:17 GMT > There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer > compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and > heap it on the ground around plants and trees? Manure should be at least six months old before use. By mushroom compost, do you mean the medium that the mushrooms grow in? If so, that is probably horse manure and was sterilized before it was used for mushrooms (good to go). These are fertilizers, if I read you properly, a source of nitrogen for the plants, not what gardeners usually think of as mulch, which is usually worm food.
Like mulch, leave six foot radius around the tree clear, if you plan to feed them. Most plants could do well with a side dressing about now.
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Zootal - 17 Jul 2008 22:20 GMT >> There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer >> compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Like mulch, leave six foot radius around the tree clear, if you plan to > feed them. Most plants could do well with a side dressing about now. It is aged, you can tell by looking at it, but there is no telling how long it was aged. It has a fairly pleasant odor (for manure, that is) which would indicate some aging. I think I'll go sparingly just in case...hate to fry my plants with hot manure.
Zootal - 17 Jul 2008 22:21 GMT >> There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer >> compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Like mulch, leave six foot radius around the tree clear, if you plan to > feed them. Most plants could do well with a side dressing about now. PS - it's definitely not mulch. This is plain old somewhat aged cow poop.
FarmI - 18 Jul 2008 03:07 GMT "Zootal" <giganews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > PS - it's definitely not mulch. This is plain old somewhat aged cow poop. Then use it now and dont' let the nutrients escape into the ground in a non useful place. Don't put it around the base of lettuce or parsley but anything that will be harvested from above the level of the poop will love it as will your worms.
FarmI - 18 Jul 2008 03:04 GMT "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message
>> There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer >> compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and >> heap it on the ground around plants and trees? > > Manure should be at least six months old before use. I disagree strongly with this. I use manure pretty fresh and always have. It just depends on where you use it.
I think that the taboos about manure stem from old books (mostly from Europe) which all talk about "aged manure". I suspect that most people believe that without ever having tried it really fresh.
David Hare-Scott - 18 Jul 2008 04:59 GMT > "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Europe) which all talk about "aged manure". I suspect that most people > believe that without ever having tried it really fresh. I agree. I live in the midst of cattle country and we run horses as well. Manure from either can be used within a few weeks of date of plop when it has dried somewhat.
Manure from birds (chickens, turkeys etc) is another matter altogether as the content of nutrients is much higher. It must be diluted and/or composted and/or aged before use. I prefer diluting and composting in with other plant material as these help to retain the nutrients as just leaving it lying in a heap will allow the soluble nutrients (especially nitrogen compounds) to leach away. This usually results in great growth of grass downslope from the pile which may not be what you want.
As for the neccesity of hot composting and sterilizing I think the risk of picking up a pathogen from the manure of a herbivore is greatly over estimated. Sure there are E.Coli and other pathogens that can live in humans in their guts but we all live in a microbiological soup. The air, the water and every object we touch is covered in microbes by the gazillion. Living isn't something you can do sterile.
There are a great many people in the western world who live in big cities who are horrified at the thought of anything that has come out of the arse of a living creature. [I always knew that a boiled egg is the work of the devil] I have had people ask me "where do the horses go to the bathroom?" When I replied "where ever they please" they were horrified.
You have only to look at the vast market for fancy surface cleansers, coloured stuff to put down your toilet etc, most of which is entirely pointless, to see how this fear is reinforced by vested interests. Much of this squeamishness is based on the fear that one spot of fecal matter on ones skin will automatically result in an illness. You wash before eating don't you? You have an immune system don't you? But you are a bad parent whose children ought be taken away if your whole bathroom isn't sprayed with Zeppo Ultraclean daily.
I would say changing the dirty nappy of an infant is far more dangerous (not to mention unpleasant) than spreading barrows full of not fully composted cow manure.
David
Dioclese - 18 Jul 2008 12:15 GMT >> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > David Kinda confusing, the FDA and other naysayers of animal poop. The last tainted spinach thing, that found the couple of rows where it was located in a farm in California. Uphill from there, cattle graze. They heavily implied the cow manure during heavy rain was the culprit. But, didn't come out and say it was for sure. Seems more rhetoric and guessing, than science to me.
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Bailout: U.S. taxpayers paying a sum of money for some critical business failure that was fleecing the taxpayer to begin with. Somehow, the word "bailout" seems very different.
Billy - 18 Jul 2008 16:48 GMT > >> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message > >> > [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > out and say it was for sure. Seems more rhetoric and guessing, than science > to me. A surmise perhaps, but not without foundation or precedent. http://www.csiss.org/classics/content/8
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Bill - 18 Jul 2008 17:17 GMT In article <wildbilly-291B66.08482618072008@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> http://www.csiss.org/classics/content/8 Keep the feces out of the water. Feces on the land that is breaking down not the problem. I have had many tons of chicken feces spread about here in the past along with with wood chip it sort of invites a vitality. I would not like it in my water supply . So what is the problem? Perhaps long times of produce sitting about and driven a few thousand miles. The labels in my supermarket suggest when to sell by but not when they arrived. Then misted to suggest fresh.
Bill
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Dioclese - 20 Jul 2008 14:53 GMT My conclusion is that the FDA simply does not really know the actual source of E-coli in recent grocery produce problems. And, they will probably never will now, or, in such future outbreaks.
Commonly, the workers in the grocery produce department place the newly arrived stuff in the rear of the bin, the best they can.
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Bailout: Friend, relative, business acquaintance paying a sum to get the accused out of jail until court is ready to proceed.
Bailout: U.S. taxpayers paying a sum of money for some critical business failure that was fleecing the taxpayer to begin with. Somehow, the word "bailout" seems very different.
> In article > <wildbilly-291B66.08482618072008@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bill FarmI - 19 Jul 2008 08:17 GMT "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly-
>> "David Hare-Scott" <compost@rotting.com> wrote in message >> > "FarmI" <ask@itshall be given> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] > A surmise perhaps, but not without foundation or precedent. > http://www.csiss.org/classics/content/8 ???? I must have missed any reference to humanure in the garden. I wouldn't recommend it even though the Chinese have done it for 40 centuries.
Billy - 19 Jul 2008 18:30 GMT In article <48819502$0$29832$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly- > >> "David Hare-Scott" <compost@rotting.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > ???? I must have missed any reference to humanure in the garden. I > wouldn't recommend it even though the Chinese have done it for 40 centuries. Shirley (couldn't resist) you wouldn't drink water that was fresh run-off from a cow pasture. We be talking sh.t here, I don't care what animal it came out of. Don't try to obscure the issue with your wiley Australian pas-de-deux.
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FarmI - 21 Jul 2008 10:25 GMT "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message
>> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly-
>> > A surmise perhaps, but not without foundation or precedent. >> > http://www.csiss.org/classics/content/8 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Shirley Shirley, who the hell is Shirley?
(couldn't resist) you wouldn't drink water that was fresh
> run-off from a cow pasture. We be talking sh.t here, I don't care what > animal it came out of. Yep, we ARE talking sh.t here, but sh.t from cattle, not human sh.t.
I had assumed that as someone who continually tries to educate people to follow the organic path, you would understand that plants like cattle sh.t and in fact all animal sh.t. Human sh.t has no place in any domestic garden and no-one suggested drinking cattle sh.t.
Don't try to obscure the issue with your wiley
> Australian pas-de-deux. Well if by "Australian pas de deux" you mean that David and I are trying to get you to discuss this topic using logic and/or experience, then I guess I'd have to plead guilty. It sure beats doing the Texas two step.
We were talking cow sh.t so why suddenly introduce the topic of human sh.t?
Billy - 21 Jul 2008 19:46 GMT In article <488455f0$0$20506$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message > >> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly- [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Shirley, who the hell is Shirley? Fran, you don't mind me calling you Fran, do you? Good. You don't keep up with cutting edge of American culture? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3rXK7NhWN8 explains all. Maybe I should have said Shelia but that doesn't have any resonance here.
> (couldn't resist) you wouldn't drink water that was fresh > > run-off from a cow pasture. We be talking sh.t here, I don't care what [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and in fact all animal sh.t. Human sh.t has no place in any domestic garden > and no-one suggested drinking cattle sh.t. Oh goodie, your back ;o) and brought your muscle with you:o( I was beginning to think that you had one too many Fosters and had gone to the waller for a nice lie down, now I find you've been prattling on about taxonomy (let's keep it to Chordata Tetrapoda), while I was talking about "enteric bacteria - rod-shaped Gram-negative bacteria; most occur normally or pathogenically in intestines of humans and other animals." The operative word here is "pathogenically".
I'm sure that plants do like doo, unless it's too much doo and fries them.
My point is, my painfully obtuse friend, is that the ingestion of green doo (be it sipped or chewed) may lead to predictable and avoidable consequences (you get sick). You should avoid root crops in conjunction with green doo. Leafy vegetables could be contaminated by rain splashing doo onto the plant, so either mulch them to eliminate splashing or don't grow them. Fruiting crops are probably safe; train any vining ones such as cucumbers or tomatoes onto a support so that the fruit is off the ground. Thoroughly wash any produce from the garden before eating it. Or you could just use aged manure and save yourself the trouble of the doo dos and the doo don'ts. Or you could doo it Bush's way and just irradiate it, doo and all, (yumm, yumm) and that would be the end of the problem (they say).
> Don't try to obscure the issue with your wiley > > Australian pas-de-deux. > > Well if by "Australian pas de deux" you mean that David and I are trying to > get you to discuss this topic using logic and/or experience, then I guess > I'd have to plead guilty. It sure beats doing the Texas two step. Ah, you haven't lived until you've tried "Country Swing".
> We were talking cow sh.t so why suddenly introduce the topic of human sh.t? To put a finer point on it, I was stressing (1) the FACT that feces is a source for pathogenic organisms (see definition above) and (2) this concern abates after three to four months of dry warmth and sunshine. See: http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/publicconcerns/cwa01s11.html
If you would simply engage that dormant organ under your hat, these conversations would go more quickly ;o))
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FarmI - 22 Jul 2008 05:45 GMT "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly-
>> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message >> >> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly- [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Fran, you don't mind me calling you Fran, do you? Good. No I don't mind at all.
> You don't keep up with cutting edge of American culture? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3rXK7NhWN8 explains all. I hope you had your tongue firmly in your cheek when you called that "cutting edge" because if you didn't, then I'd hate to see what you include in your "dumb crap" category.
> Maybe I should have said Shelia but that doesn't have any resonance here. But you think your reference to "Shirley" does have resonance? That is both jingoistic and arrogant on your part given the universal access to newsgroups.
>> (couldn't resist) you wouldn't drink water that was fresh >> > run-off from a cow pasture. We be talking sh.t here, I don't care what [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > The operative word here is > "pathogenically". Do you ever attempt to stay on topic or attempt to post from a basis of either logic or relevance? Your obsession with alcohol and your irrelevant and illogical imaginings about other's drinking habits has nothing to do with the topic or the thread. My nationality also has nothing to do with the discussion, however your attempts to use that as a form of insult is duly noted.
This group is called rec.gardens. The question originally asked was: "There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and heap it on the ground around plants and trees?"
If you had bothered to read the question with any degree of comprehension you would have noticed 2 things: the use of the words "compost" and "around plants and trees".
The one and only answer to this question is the one I originally gave. That answer is "yes".
You chose to answer that manure should be six months old before use. I know from long experience, as clearly does David, that such ageing is not necessary and in my case I know that even applies for fresh poultry manure. It depends on where it is spread.
But back to the current twist in his thread. Of course animal manure has pathogens in it. But so does soil. So does water and potting mix. I even provided a post that cited that water retains pathogens longer than manure. If you bothered to spend even a nonosecond thinking about the implications of water borne pathogens then you would be advocating that we don't use water in the garden.
You aren't advocating that, and you would sound like a total idiot if you did. However, that does not mean that you aren't being a patronising idiot in dribbling on continuously about pathogens. If you bothered to pay attention to what other's have written, you would realise that we already know about pathogens in our gardening environment. Note the use of the word "gardening". That does not include the lack of sewers in 19th century Britain.
The discussion here started, and should have remained, about manure used in gardens. If you bothered to stay on topic and not ramble in a free association way, you might be able to figure that out. Now you are forced to try to justify your irrelevant introduction of the British cholera outbreaks of the 19th cenury and choose to do that by trying to be insulting.
Stay on topic. Stick to the pathogens found in manures used in gardens. That does not include human, dog, cat, pig or many other manures.
> I'm sure that plants do like doo, unless it's too much doo and fries > them. Lord spare me! That is complete rubbish! Just how many plants have you ever managed to fry with fresh poo? I've yet to use any manure that has ever fried any plant and that includes fresh poultry manure. In your keeness to sound knowledgable on this topic, you fail (as usual) to believe that anyone has a even a modicum of common sense.
A very raw beginner might fry something if they planted straight into fresh manure, but no-one with even a soupcon of gardening experience would manage to do that.
> My point is, my painfully obtuse friend, is that the ingestion of > green doo (be it sipped or chewed) may lead to predictable and avoidable > consequences (you get sick). And you, my obtuse non friend, should learn to read for comprehension. I know you like to pontificate but your repeated posts indicate that you aren't following the discussion with any degree of attention. If you weren't always so keen to grandstand and show off, you might actually make some sense more often.
You should avoid root crops in conjunction
> with green doo. Leafy vegetables could be contaminated by rain splashing > doo onto the plant, so either mulch them to eliminate splashing or don't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Or you could doo it Bush's way and just irradiate it, doo and all, > (yumm, yumm) and that would be the end of the problem (they say). This ramble is further indication that you are responding to something in your own head rather than what has so far been covered in this thread. Do try to pay more attention to what is written, not what you think has been written.
>> Don't try to obscure the issue with your wiley >> > Australian pas-de-deux. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > See: > http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/publicconcerns/cwa01s11.html Are you trying to prove that you are stupid or are you really just not paying attention? Why refer me to a cite that I provided in the first place? I was the one who posted that cite on the 18th of July. I read it and digested it before you did and I posted it in response to a cite you gave about the most nasty but rare form of E. coli. Most forms of E. coli are harmless but that one is not.
> If you would simply engage that dormant organ under your hat, these > conversations would go more quickly ;o)) And no doubt you think that your continued grandstanding and opinion on everything even if not backed up by knowledge or experience is helpful. At least you have some amusement value I suppose.
Billy - 22 Jul 2008 07:28 GMT In article <488565db$0$20529$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly- > >> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 169 lines] > everything even if not backed up by knowledge or experience is helpful. At > least you have some amusement value I suppose. And I hope that no one gets sick or worse because of your advice.
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FarmI - 22 Jul 2008 12:36 GMT "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message
>> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly- >> >> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 203 lines] > > And I hope that no one gets sick or worse because of your advice. For crying out loud! Do pay more attention.
I have already given advice in this very thread that whilst the OP can use the steer crap, it shouldn't be used on lettuce or parsley. I just reiterated above that we all know that manures have pathogens. If people can't read this thread and can't figure out by now that manure contains pathogens (as does soil, water and potting mix) and are so ignorant that they can't figure out for themselves that they can just as easily become ill stacking the stuff as you advise as they can from spreading it as I recommend then they must be as sharp as frog spawn and would probably cut off their own foot with a spade and consequently bleed to death if let loose without supervision.
Billy - 22 Jul 2008 17:14 GMT In article <4885c65c$0$20538$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message At some point this dialog went from a discussion to a humorless harangue. G'day.
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FarmI - 19 Jul 2008 08:23 GMT >>> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message >>> > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > come out and say it was for sure. Seems more rhetoric and guessing, than > science to me. That incidence, and another involving lettuce in California, involved on very particularly nasty form of E. coli (viz 0157:H7). There are many varieties of E. coli. The FDA would have to take the most cautious approach they could without putting the fear of raging disease into the whole populace.
There are many other forms of diseases we can pick up in a garden (or in cafes or even from handles on shop doors). I've had cellulitis from the most minute rose prick you've ever seen. My husband had cellulitis when travelling in a tropical country without even getting any break in the skin. It's all about taking sensible precautions without being fear ridden or we'd never garden, own animals, go out of the house etc.
Billy - 18 Jul 2008 06:26 GMT In article <487ffa35$0$29859$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I disagree strongly with this. I use manure pretty fresh and always have. > It just depends on where you use it. and how lucky you feel ;-) http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/publicconcerns/cwa01s11.html
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FarmI - 19 Jul 2008 07:57 GMT "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly-
>> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > and how lucky you feel ;-) > http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/publicconcerns/cwa01s11.html Luck has nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned. If you looked with any degree of closeness at the chart on that site, you would never garden if you were worried about either pathogens or luck. That site says that Water is a better place for survival of E. coli than manure. No-one I know can garden without water, and as David H-S says, the world is a dirty place. If ya number's up, it's up as far as I'm concerned and till it's up, I garden and I haul fresh manure.
Billy - 19 Jul 2008 18:40 GMT In article <48819076$0$29831$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly- > >> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > ya number's up, it's up as far as I'm concerned and till it's up, I garden > and I haul fresh manure. Right, friday night in Australia and what better amusement than a kickin', gouging, bitin', knock-down, drag-out fight, eh? Fine, if you want to load up your garden with fresh manure in the middle or the end of the growing season, I wish you God's speed. For anyone who doesn't need to tempt the Almighty for thrills, I suggest that they keep their sh.t in a corner of their property, away from those tasty little plants, for at least three months and preferably four. By that time UV and micro critters should have rendered it healthy to use. I never did consider caution a form of paranoia. But then, I'm older than you;-)
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FarmI - 21 Jul 2008 10:24 GMT "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message
>> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message news:wildbilly- >> >> "Billy" <wildbilly@get_the.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Right, friday night in Australia and what better amusement than a > kickin', gouging, bitin', knock-down, drag-out fight, eh? What the.......?
Fine, if you
> want to load up your garden with fresh manure in the middle or the end > of the growing season, I wish you God's speed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > use. I never did consider caution a form of paranoia. But then, I'm > older than you;-) So how old do you think I am? And what has that to do with the use of animal poop?
However, if you are going to give such advice then I will provide an alternative thought. If people choose to keep their sh.t covered in a corner than perhaps they might also be interested in thinking about and finding out how "well rotted animal manure" is arrived at and what happens to the nutrients to reach that stage. I prefer to have the nutrients in my garden and not in some corner somewhere.
paghat - 17 Jul 2008 22:46 GMT > There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer > compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and > heap it on the ground around plants and trees? STEER MANURE:
I like the look of steer manure because as a top-coating or mulch it's inert so retards weeds but looks like rich loamy topsoil. If properly and fully composted it will have a good earthy smell and is totally-totally good stuff. If it smells poopy it's not so great, though still not likely to be harmfully pathogenic though even the slightest risk of e-coli would warn against using it if it smells poopy or rotten eggish.
MUSHROOM "COMPOST":
Mushroom compost isn't composted mushrooms but "spent mushroom substrate" and whatever of the mushrooms is in it is usually not even fully composted. It's usually "steamed" before shipped for garden use but is frequently just not authentically a composted product. Because not fully composted it CAN leech nitrogen from soil until it finishes breaking down, though in general this isn't an issue as it is with bark, it has enough nitrogen of its own to unleash some of it rather than draw out the garden's.
Mushroom compost nutrient content is unpredictable because the content of the spent substrate can be extremely varied. Typically it's a mixture of such ingredients as straw, horse manure, chicken manure, peat, bark, and lime. The lime can have effects on soil not planned for, many plants declining due to alkalinity, far fewer plants loving alkalinity.
Commercial compost workers have also been documented to suffer severe respiratory disease from organic mushroom compost dust exposure. Garden use would not have such a risk but it is wise to wear a mask during application, and not use it in arid gardens where winds might stir up dust and spores enough to effect lungs of pets or gardeners. Never apply it if it's dried and powdery; wet it down to 50% moisture which makes it easier to spread and nixes potentially dangerous dust.
If it stinks of ammonia or poo, that's cuz it's got raw sewage or manure, bad, bad. All these caveats sound like it is invariably be rotten stuff for the garden, but it's by and large okay, and mainly you have to consider the issue of it having lime in it and it has to pass the stink test and should smell more like autumn leaves than crap. If you're lucky, the variety of content means it has the best array of micro-nutrients such as manganese and iron and whatnot.
BARK:
Bark is terrible for sucking nitrogen out of soil. It's fine once it's completely broken down and bark's a totally reasonable component of fully composted product, but as chunks of bark uncomposted, the guarantee it will subtract nigrogen from the soil has to be considered. A little bark will encourage beneficial fungus and some shrubs such as vacciniums or dogwoods really like the extra fungus; huckleberries in particular even prefer the lowered nitrogen in favor of heightened fungus. For most gardens it's a poor choice of mulch since depleting the nitrogen slows the growth of most perennials and annuals. If there's reason to WANT the soil to be poor for growing (because nothing will ever be planted there) then these points won't matter.
My favorite of the three is definitely well-composted manure (steer or dairy or chicken or zoo doo), the steer being generally cheapest and having many positive points and very little against it. Chicken manure has twice as much nitrogen as does steer manure, and steer has more nitrogen and potasium than dairy manure, but as a top-coating at least it's all the same as it is fairly inert unless mixed up with soil at which point manure composts feed the microorganisms that produce the nitrogen and other nutrients.
-paghat the ratgirl
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David Hare-Scott - 18 Jul 2008 05:01 GMT "paghat" <gardenSPAM-ME-NOT@paghat.com> wrote in message news:gardenSPAM-ME-NOT-
> and steer has more > nitrogen and potasium than dairy manure, Why do you say that? Do they have greatly different diets where you are?
David
Billy - 18 Jul 2008 06:52 GMT > "paghat" <gardenSPAM-ME-NOT@paghat.com> wrote in message > news:gardenSPAM-ME-NOT- [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David From chicken to zoo doo http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
David Hare-Scott - 20 Jul 2008 09:05 GMT > > "paghat" <gardenSPAM-ME-NOT@paghat.com> wrote in message > > news:gardenSPAM-ME-NOT- [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > From chicken to zoo doo > http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm The table in this is based on some other reference that I don't have but it seems to me to make some assumptions about the diet of the animals. It says steer manure (I suppose they mean beef cattle rather than having some reason to think that cow, heifer or bull manure is different from that of steers) has more seeds than dairy cow. This would only be so if they had different diets. I am thinking this table is based on USA practice which includes much lot feeding. Here you will get dairy cattle on one paddock and beef on the next with them both eating the same pasture. Under those conditions I cannot think why the manure would be very much different. [As for those diary cows you would think that a steady diet of paper would alter their output and it is in fact so.]
It also seems to assume that "manure" includes bedding (ie straw etc that has not been through the beast) This makes a huge difference to composition compared to the straight stuff.
I thought the bit that said "Washed dairy manure from healthy cows is just about perfect for garden use" was interesting. Who washes it? What do they do with the dirty water? Where do they find the water and the time? The mind boggles.
David
cat daddy - 20 Jul 2008 14:08 GMT > > > "paghat" <gardenSPAM-ME-NOT@paghat.com> wrote in message > > > news:gardenSPAM-ME-NOT- [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > do with the dirty water? Where do they find the water and the time? The mind > boggles. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/soil/msg0400570230287.html#
"The big reason cow manure is lower in nitrogen is because it is diverted into milk production..."
"Most factory-type diaries do not use bedding; instead, they flush the manure with water into holding ponds and let it separate. Manure from these types of farms comes from the bottom of the ponds when they are drained." [hence, "washed"]
Billy - 20 Jul 2008 16:51 GMT > > > "paghat" <gardenSPAM-ME-NOT@paghat.com> wrote in message > > > news:gardenSPAM-ME-NOT- [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > David One boggle at a time. I looked at several tables and they all reflected the same data, that steers produce more nitrogen compounds than dairy cows. Why is left to conjecture, but diets seems a reasonable guess.
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Bill - 20 Jul 2008 18:05 GMT In article <wildbilly-25FD16.08511820072008@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> > > > "paghat" <gardenSPAM-ME-NOT@paghat.com> wrote in message > > > > news:gardenSPAM-ME-NOT- [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > dairy cows. Why is left to conjecture, but diets seems a reasonable > guess. Some where in all these feces there may be best procedure.
I don¹t know how to use the following table. Note the issue of time frame.
<http://www.ohioagriculture.gov/oda3/Lepp/Forms/Lepp_3900-APPX%20C_TBL%20 6.pdf>
I think we are discussing available nitrogen.
<http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=available+nitroge n&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8>
Bill a guy that trucked it in covered it with leaves and tilled in time.
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zxcvbob - 21 Jul 2008 16:38 GMT > I thought the bit that said "Washed dairy manure from healthy cows is just > about perfect for garden use" was interesting. Who washes it? What do they > do with the dirty water? Where do they find the water and the time? The mind > boggles. I've had worse summer jobs...
Bob
FarmI - 18 Jul 2008 03:01 GMT > There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer > compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and > heap it on the ground around plants and trees? Yes.
Billy - 18 Jul 2008 06:34 GMT In article <487ff986$0$29827$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> > There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer > > compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and > > heap it on the ground around plants and trees? > > Yes. With the caveat that contact (with root crops, lettuce or herbs), splashing from rain, or dust from working the soil can transmit pathogens to low lying fruit and, ultimately, to to you, even if you are Australian. Ornamentals, fruit trees or, corn are no problem.
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Kathryn Selfe - 20 Jul 2008 22:10 GMT mushroom compost is brilliant stuff, not only does it help the garde and existing plants, you usually find your breakfast eash day a well!!!!!!!! in my experience you cannot get better as it is well rotted and prio to being used for mushrooms all the harmful ' ' has been removed
kathryn
www.carreglefn-nurseries.co.uk'Zootal[_3_ Wrote:
> ;804590']There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compos > and steer > compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compos > and > heap it on the ground around plants and trees -- Kathryn Selfe
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