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Homeowner Forum / Lawn and Garden / June 2008Peach tree
Our peach tree, suited for our area, has not produced healthy fruit in three years. This year I gave it one more chance. I thinned the fruits early, pruned properly, cleaned up the area beneath the tree, fertilized it at the proper time and the fruit has the clear gunk on them, as well as it oozing out of the tree limbs. The fruit is not getting larger and is mishapen. At what point would you cut the tree down and plant another on the other side of the property? > Our peach tree, suited for our area, has not produced healthy fruit in > three years. This year I gave it one more chance. I thinned the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > getting larger and is mishapen. At what point would you cut the tree > down and plant another on the other side of the property? do a google search using the word "Gummosis" it will explain your tree problem >> Our peach tree, suited for our area, has not produced healthy fruit in >> three years. This year I gave it one more chance. I thinned the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >do a google search using the word "Gummosis" it will explain your tree >problem The gum exudate is not amber colored, but clear and I can't find any obvious cankers. I also have or had the last two years a problem with brown rot. Most peaches had worms near the stone (these are free stone 'Dixieland' variety). I have another spot where I can plant another tree so I'll do that this coming February. Too much problems with this and I have no intention on treating it if it requires fungicides. It may even be better to plant one out back where the animals in the yard live so they will stay back there and eat the fruit which falls, instead of coming onto the pool deck to eat the falling fruit. I hate to pick up the falling fruit because the butterflies get drunk on those rotten peaches! Particlarly the Red Admirals. Improper pruning starts many life threatening situations for the symplast of peaches. Improper mulching sets the stage for other issues that result in the effects you have acquired. All of the pesticides in the world will not fix problems associated with improper planting, fertilizing and pruning for peach trees. You also probably suffer from troubles in the rhizosphere. http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html 1. What elements have you added to the tree? 2. Can you provide some pictures of the pruning cuts on the trees? 3. Did you prune the woody roots on the trees before planting? 4. Did you plant the tree at the depth the woody roots are coming off the trunk? 5. Was there wounds on the trunk when you bought the tree? Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case Sensitive. Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/T/tree_planting.html Improper Mulching - http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html Improper Pruning http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry) http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html Tree Farming and Related Problems http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/ Troubles in the Rhizosphere http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. >>> Our peach tree, suited for our area, has not produced healthy fruit in >>> three years. This year I gave it one more chance. I thinned the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > the falling fruit because the butterflies get drunk on those rotten > peaches! Particlarly the Red Admirals. Charlie Brown's teacher...wopwop wop wah wha whop bwaaaaaa. >Improper pruning starts many life threatening situations for the symplast of >peaches. Improper mulching sets the stage for other issues that result in [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >> the falling fruit because the butterflies get drunk on those rotten >> peaches! Particlarly the Red Admirals. > Charlie Brown's teacher...wopwop wop wah wha whop bwaaaaaa. He's a clown, that Charlie Brown. He's gonna get caught. Just you wait and see. > >Improper pruning starts many life threatening situations for the symplast of > >peaches. Improper mulching sets the stage for other issues that result in [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > >> the falling fruit because the butterflies get drunk on those rotten > >> peaches! Particlarly the Red Admirals.  SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related Agian I will ask the questions: >1. What elements have you added to the tree? >2. Can you provide some pictures of the pruning cuts on the trees? >3. Did you prune the woody roots on the trees before planting? >4. Did you plant the tree at the depth the woody roots are coming off the >trunk? >5. Was there wounds on the trunk when you bought the tree? SignatureSincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. > Charlie Brown's teacher...wopwop wop wah wha whop bwaaaaaa. > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >>> the falling fruit because the butterflies get drunk on those rotten >>> peaches! Particlarly the Red Admirals. >Agian I will ask the questions: >>1. What elements have you added to the tree? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>trunk? >>5. Was there wounds on the trunk when you bought the tree? Again: Charlie Brown's teacher...wopwop wop wah wha whop bwaaaaaa. > On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:39:01 -0700 (PDT), beecrofter > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > the falling fruit because the butterflies get drunk on those rotten > peaches! Particlarly the Red Admirals. When the clear exudate turns amber look up gummosis. > When the clear exudate turns amber look up gummosis. My Redhaven is 17 years old. It has given off amber exudate for several years now. However, it continues to thrive and produce lots of peaches. I don't think gummosis is the cause of his lack of fruit. Sherwin > Our peach tree, suited for our area, has not produced healthy fruit in > three years. This year I gave it one more chance. I thinned the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > getting larger and is mishapen. At what point would you cut the tree > down and plant another on the other side of the property? Couple of questions. Is this a dwarfed tree? How old is it? Sherwin >> Our peach tree, suited for our area, has not produced healthy fruit in >> three years. This year I gave it one more chance. I thinned the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sherwin No, not a dwarf. The variety is a very low chill hourselection because we have such mild winters. I believe it is a 400 chill hour selection. We planted it (I think) five years ago. The trunk is about 10" in diameter and abot 12 feet tall, pruned in an upside down umbrella form. The first year it developed one peach, the second year we harvested 15 bushels of beautiful fruit. It hasn't produced healthy peaches since...for the last 2 or 3 years. >>> Our peach tree, suited for our area, has not produced healthy fruit in >>> three years. This year I gave it one more chance. I thinned the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >we harvested 15 bushels of beautiful fruit. It hasn't produced >healthy peaches since...for the last 2 or 3 years. Here in NH (no lack of chill hours here!) when I hear of gung weeping from peach trunks and branches I think of peach tree borer and lesser peach tree borer. See what our state entomolygist, and all around great guy, says http://extension.unh.edu/Agric/Docs/June19_08.pdf He has chemical and organic solutions. Almost any insect infestation will produce weeping from the fruit. You can wade through Alan's newsletters http://extension.unh.edu/Agric/AGPMP/IPMNews.htm for lots of useful information. John >>No, not a dwarf. The variety is a very low chill hourselection >>because we have such mild winters. I believe it is a 400 chill hour [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >John Thank you, John. I will take a gander and when the foliage falls in the fall I will be able to better inspect the limbs for any possible problems with borers. Such a shame. This tree produced the most lucious, sweet, dripping juicy fruits that anyone on my block has ever eaten. Me included. I do think it's beyond treatment at this point. It is such a mess. I can't find any cankers, and in the fruits I do see holes and mishapen areas. Drat. > >> Our peach tree, suited for our area, has not produced healthy fruit in > >> three years. This year I gave it one more chance. I thinned the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > we harvested 15 bushels of beautiful fruit. It hasn't produced > healthy peaches since...for the last 2 or 3 years. My first thought that you had an old peach dwarf that has just reached the end of it's productive years. Not your case. My Redhaven peach is about 19 years old, and has ozzed sap for most of that time. It still produces abundant heathy peaches every season. Brown rot can be controlled mostly by good sanitation and removal of affected material. There are also sprays for that. Did you remove another peach tree in this troubled period? Although peaches are generally self-fruitful, they do better with another peach tree in the vicinity to help with pollination. By the way, which cultivar of peach do you have? Sounds like you are getting enough fruit though, but it is spoiling on the tree. The worms in the fruit could be codling moth or something similar. If so, you need to go on a spray schedule of insecticide, starting shortly after pedal fall, and continuing every few weeks until harvest. Codling moth is a difficult one to control, so pick a strong spray, like Imidan to do the job. Just be sure to take the necessary precautions when using strong sprays, like protective clothing and breathing mask. Hope this helps, Sherwin PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN ARBORICULTURE: http://www.shigoandtrees.com/Default.aspx People who speak about such trees should be required to dissect them. The tree walls itself to death with the help of improper pruning, improper planting and improper fertilization. SignatureSincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. > >> >> Our peach tree, suited for our area, has not produced healthy fruit in [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Sherwin >PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of >branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The tree walls itself to death with the help of improper pruning, improper >planting and improper fertilization. BING BING BING. None of the above applies to my tree. Cuts are appropriate, fertilization is adequate, and I will probably never dissect a tree in my lilfe. Aren't you busy? Don't you work? >>PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of >>branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > appropriate, fertilization is adequate, and I will probably never > dissect a tree in my lilfe. Aren't you busy? Don't you work? Then why do you have a problem? I thought you were the one with the questions? Lets see some pictures of these wonderful trees you care for. SignatureSincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. >Then why do you have a problem? I thought you were the one with the >questions? Lets see some pictures of these wonderful trees you care for. Been there done that with you. You never showed me one dissection you did? Did I miss something? SignatureSincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. > >>Then why do you have a problem? I thought you were the one with the >>questions? Lets see some pictures of these wonderful trees you care for. > > Been there done that with you. >You never showed me one dissection you did? Did I miss something? You didn't ask me for photos of my dissection of my peach tree. You asked for photos of the tree. One time you said people don't know how to prune correctly and I sent you photos of donuts forming around cuts I'd made on several of my climax Live Oak trees. You never acknowledged that I sent them, even though you said they'd go on your website if they were done correctly. Boring. I'm now boring myself. > You never showed me one dissection you did? Did I miss something? > > -- > Sincerely, > John A. Keslick, Jr. No, but maybe he can get you an MRI. Sherwin >PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of >branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The tree walls itself to death with the help of improper pruning, improper >planting and improper fertilization. Peaches can be touchy - no question, but any basic extension service will provide enough information for most *home* gardeners. Here is one from the Midwest - http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1406.html There are plenty more out there from unis or state or county services in more northern or southern climates. Easy to find. Really, this isn't rocket science at the home gardener level. Me? I just started two dwarf Elbertas in huge tubs this year in northern NJ. They will overwinter in the unheated garage come December. Best case, I get some peaches nest year. Worst case, I have some lovely flowering trees in the spring. I have more problems with groundhogs going after my blueberries and breaking off branches as they reach up. Boron >>PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of >>branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1406.html Wrong way to tell people to prune a tree without even explaining how a branch is attached. Go here: http://www.shigoandtrees.com WORLD WIDE PRUNING GUIDE for home owners. LUCID!!!!!! MODERN ARBORICULTURE for peaches. SignatureSincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. >>>PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of >>>branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Wrong way to tell people to prune a tree without even explaining how a >branch is attached. Well, no it isn't. The average home gardener really does not need the level of knowledge that you feel is minimum. There is no reason to offer any more info than is needed. Those interested in further info can find it or seek it out. Those who want a very specific pieces of it can thus find it easily and not wade through unwanted and extraneous information. Although you dearly want to tell people everything you know, most of it is burdensome and unnecessary. >Go here: http://www.shigoandtrees.com WORLD WIDE PRUNING GUIDE for home >owners. LUCID!!!!!! >MODERN ARBORICULTURE for peaches. Do you think that home gardeners didn't grow fruit trees before these books came along? The yard of the home I grew up in had a fine, fine peach tree. I assure you, no one felt the need to run out and get your books. An inexperienced gardener asks for or seeks a level of information that is practical, understandable and useful. What you offer is interesting, but truly impractical and useless for the average gardener. Amazingly, nature seems to allow even unattended fruit trees to produce, some may do so better than others and there are many ways of maintaining and increasing yields if tended, but, really, until you comprehend the audience to whom you preach so haughtily, you'll benefit no one. How the hell do you earn a living? Boron > Well, no it isn't. The average home gardener really does not need the > level of knowledge that you feel is minimum. There is no reason to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Although you dearly want to tell people everything you know, most of > it is burdensome and unnecessary. Wrong. Telling someone to prune a tree is different then explaining how to prune a tree. You claim people who want to help trees all they need to know is to prune. Nonsense. The world wide photo pruning guide is as simple as you get. Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case Sensitive. Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/T/tree_planting.html Improper Mulching - http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html Improper Pruning http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry) http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html Tree Farming and Related Problems http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/ Troubles in the Rhizosphere http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. >> Well, no it isn't. The average home gardener really does not need the >> level of knowledge that you feel is minimum. There is no reason to [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books > that will give them understanding. Well sh.t, the yard man is a biologist again. >>PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of >>branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1406.html I just read that website and it is the worst instructions I have ever read in caring for a tree properly. Home owners are sure to create problems with instructions like that~!!!!! Must be willing to read www.shigoandtrees.com you can get their stuff at your library - FREE! Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. SignatureSincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. >>>PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of >>>branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that >will give them understanding. Time to put you in the killfile. I don't know what your problem in life is, but you're a nutcase. So long, sucker. Boron >>>>PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of >>>>branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Boron Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. DITO > Some people will buy products they do not understand and > not buy books that will give them understanding. the trouble is, John, *you* aren't gaining any understanding. one does not 'dissect' a living tree. and a homeowner does NOT in any way, shape or form need to become a "tree biologist" in order to steward the landscaping in his or her yard. while you believe everyone should memorize Dr.Shigo's words, that is a fallacy on your part. by being so insistant that *your* way is the only way to view a tree, you are driving more people away from reputable sources of useful information. not only that, but you bring up tree dissection & Shigo in entirely unrelated posts, like one about tomatoes. lee SignatureLast night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. >>PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of >>branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1406.html Oh yes and so much NITROGEN! At planting time at that! Whatever problems the tree had prior application of fast release nitrogen, the tree still has after application. Maybe I am wrong, what do you see? However, the thing that changes is the tree grew bigger in symplast maintaining parts. With this increase is size from nitrogen, the requirements for the other 16 essential elements increases. Food for defense of larger symplast increases, not to mention the energy required for the increase in girth to take place. The requirement for water increases with size of symplast. I would think it is safe to say that the root exudates for soil associates will also increase. More living cells would be required to store starch. What's the cost of creating extra starch? So you will hopefully see and understand the role nitrogen can play. Bigger leaves more oxygen. More oxygen out also requires more oxygen in for respiration. So what real benefit, do we know of, that applications of high doses of fast release nitrogen might create? The only thing I know fast release nitrogen feeds is the decay fungi. Some people would say decay pathogen. I kind of favor the predisposition theory. Nonetheless, so much focus on nitrogen, should be spread out for all the 17 known essential elements for trees. When one is lacking it will dictate a problem. The Law Of The Minimum. Something I have on growth increase: I do not know, I may be all wrong as some claim. Maybe I am a fraud and will never be a arborist, forester, tree biologist or whatever, as some have claimed. My professor and his chemistry friend used to explain nitrogen applications like this. Take the 10 most spectacular 4th of July Grand Finale's and put them together. This is what happens when you take a pinch of fast release nitrogen and release it on the soil. That is chemistry speaking. I believe them. Do you? SignatureSincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. > >>PEACH trees are a C tree with respect to improper pruning and death of > >>branches. If you do not understand that maybe you need to read MODERN [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > - Show quoted text - So....I joined this group to be a part of gardening discussions. But it's actually a lecture series by Mr. Keslick, I'm realizing. Sorry to be off topic, but I have to ask somewhere before I give up and leave the group. Is this a common complaint? Anyone have advice? > So....I joined this group to be a part of gardening discussions. But > it's actually a lecture series by Mr. Keslick, I'm realizing. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is this a common complaint? Anyone have advice? Yes it's a common complaint. The guy is a total nutcase that passes himself off as an arborist because he cut a tree down once while Dr. Shigo was somewhere in the area. He answers every question on this forum with the same cut and paste crap, although sometimes we get to see a real him go off the deepend as in the past couple of days. You have two basic choices: 1) killfile him 2) take amusement in his crazy patter Whatever you do under no circumstances take any of his advice w/o double checking it. He'll have you running around dissecting all your healthy trees. There's no reason to leave this forum because of this guy. There are some hard core gardeners on here that have probably forgotten more about plants the Keslick ever knew. ml > He answers every question on this forum with the same cut and paste crap, > although sometimes we get to see a real him go off the deepend as in the > past couple of days. bah, I shouldn't post in the morning. The above should read: He answers every question on this forum with the same cut and paste crap, although sometimes we get to see him go really go off the deepend as in the past couple of days. >> He answers every question on this forum with the same cut and paste crap, >> although sometimes we get to see a real him go off the deepend as in the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >although sometimes we get to see him go really go off the deepend as in the >past couple of days. Apparently I'm now Don Staples! He asked me to kindly send him a branch of my tree so he could dissect it and determine how much water it needs. I gave him and others a rather lucid description of the rangeland conditions here in Texas and it's been on record for a hundred or more years how much water is needed for Live Oaks. Then, the guy blew a cork! Jim <jim3587@aol.com> wrote in news:71f482eb-4bb8-4e4b-918a-a352553c7b69@26g2000hsk.googlegro ups.com: > So....I joined this group to be a part of gardening > discussions. But it's actually a lecture series by Mr. > Keslick, I'm realizing. so you had to quote the whole thing just to complain about it? > Sorry to be off topic, but I have to ask somewhere before I > give up and leave the group. > Is this a common complaint? Anyone have advice? yes, it's a common complaint. you can killfile Mr. Keslick, or you can simply ignore his posts. both of these things would be far easier if you get yourself a proper news server (NNTP server) instead of using <gag> google groups as your usenet access. google groupies have little room to complain about others. lee SignatureLast night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. >So....I joined this group to be a part of gardening discussions. But >it's actually a lecture series by Mr. Keslick, I'm realizing. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Is this a common complaint? Anyone have advice? Please just ask. There are a lot of gardeners here who know how to garden and have plenty of suggestions. This newsgroup used to be much more fun, then it all started and it never ends. Ignore and ask away. Victoria > My first thought that you had an old peach dwarf that has just reached > the end of it's productive years. Not your case. My Redhaven peach [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Sherwin That won't happen. Brown rot really can't be controlled. I didn't remove a tree anywhere on the property. The variety is 'Dixieland' and I won't be using a spray program under any circumstances. What the tree is planted there is a shallow level of soil which only goes down about 24 inches before it hits caliche. The tree is most likely not receiving the elements provided because of the pH level of the subsoil. I will plant another tree on the property which has at least 4 feet of topsoil and far enough from the infected tree not to be bothered by whatever is causing this stree. Thanks for the information, but I do not use any pesticdes, not even natural ones. <snipped a bunch to get to the root of the problem> "but I do not use any pesticdes, not even natural ones." There is your issue. There are many insects, fungi and diseases that attack fruit trees. If you take no measures to deal with them you will have the problems that you are having. John > <snipped a bunch to get to the root of the > problem> "but I do not use any pesticdes, not [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > John I know there are "Purists" out there but it is amazing at how they can change their mind at times. I have a backyard vineyard and make my own wine. Living in in the Mid Atlantic, I HAVE to use fungicides (wine growers in Bordeaux do also ;-) ) I have some "Purists" friends but they never turn down my wine - go figure. >> <snipped a bunch to get to the root of the >> problem> "but I do not use any pesticdes, not [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >I have some "Purists" friends but they never turn >down my wine - go figure. I'm not a purist. I don't use toxins because I don't kill intentionally. Do I kill all day by walking on the floor, ground outdoors smashing ants, swatting flies on autopilot, eat foods which were grown with natural pesticides, Yes. The difference is these are not done intentionally. > >> <snipped a bunch to get to the root of the > >> problem> "but I do not use any pesticdes, not [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > were grown with natural pesticides, Yes. The difference is these are > not done intentionally. Get a broom. SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related > > <snipped a bunch to get to the root of the > > problem> "but I do not use any pesticdes, not [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > amazing at how they can change their mind at > times. > I have a backyard vineyard and make my own wine. > Living in in the Mid Atlantic, I HAVE to use > fungicides (wine growers in Bordeaux do > also ;-) ) Fungicides are one thing, pesticides are another. Fortunately, the yeast dispose of most of these. > I have some "Purists" friends but they never turn > down my wine - go figure. They will probably be more put off by the SO2 that you use. If you don'y use SO2, they will probably be turned off by the wine. I had the good luck to find a case of '83 Pinot that I had forgotten about. It's a little tired but I'm sure an European palette would find it just fine. There are also some experiments in magnums from 1979 that escaped my progeny (grace a dieu). SignatureBilly Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related ><snipped a bunch to get to the root of the problem> "but I do not use >any pesticdes, not even natural ones." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >John Yeah, I know. It's definitely a blunder, that's for sure. Fortunately I live in a country where food is greatly abundant and I don't depend on one tree for food. I mean that sincerely. Still, I won't use poisons so I have to be willing to accept the outcome. >><snipped a bunch to get to the root of the problem> "but I do not use >>any pesticdes, not even natural ones." [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >on one tree for food. I mean that sincerely. Still, I won't use >poisons so I have to be willing to accept the outcome. There are organic ways to deal with the issues. See the newsletter link that I posted before. He provides both chemical and organic solutions. John >>><snipped a bunch to get to the root of the problem> "but I do not use >>>any pesticdes, not even natural ones." [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >John I don't use pesticides, natural or synthetic. Fungicides are pesticides. No worry, this is certainly not the end of my world. > >>><snipped a bunch to get to the root of the problem> "but I do not use > >>>any pesticdes, not even natural ones." [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I don't use pesticides, natural or synthetic. Fungicides are > pesticides. No worry, this is certainly not the end of my world. Perhaps you are trying to explain that in your mind Fungicides are as bad as Insecticides. Technically, they are very different, Insecticides are for killing insects and fungicides are for killing fungus. If you don't want to use them, forget about combating serious fruit tree problems. Sherwin >> >>><snipped a bunch to get to the root of the problem> "but I do not use >> >>>any pesticdes, not even natural ones." [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Sherwin Fungicides, herbicides, pesticides and miticides are all pesticides. Then I won't have fruit. > Fungicides, herbicides, pesticides and miticides are all pesticides. Hello, I'm curious where you draw the line. Oxygen could be considered a pesticide if your pests are anaerobic. Water can certainly drown pests. Yet I'm pretty sure, since from your posts you appear quite sane, that you consider neither a pesticide. I'm not trying to give you grief but for you this must be a fairly serious question. We're awash in chemicals, natural and otherwise. How do you pick and choose which ones you'll allow? Or do you just never apply anything at all, ever, in the course of removing pests? ml >> Fungicides, herbicides, pesticides and miticides are all pesticides. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >ml I wrote an article in a Buddhist magazine about this which I posted here weeks or months ago. I do not use any pesticides to remove pests. If you read the post you saw where I say we cannot move an inch without killing something. Ants we walk on, swatting a bug off without thinking, etc. So I'm critically aware of what you're saying and I agree with you. My intention is to NOT KILL INTENTIONALLY. It's just a simple mindful thing I do as a Buddhist. I won't swim laps in my lap pool until I first go in with a screened pool thingamagig and scoop out any insects which are struggling in the water. I look to see if they are in there and save them when I can. It's just a simple act of kindness for all beings, insect, human, snake, rat. Hi there, ever tried a lemon tree? ;-) http://www.rixa.com/node/32 >Hi there, ever tried a lemon tree? ;-) >http://www.rixa.com/node/32 I have two. One makes yellow flesh and one makes pink flesh. Both are doing very well. I found out this year I am not allergic to citrus. I tell you, ageing is not for sissy's. Hi, any special care needed for your lemon trees? I am little sceptic as mine tend to shrink... Is it because of the soil? Alex > >Hi there, ever tried a lemon tree? ;-) > >http://www.rixa.com/node/32 > > I have two. One makes yellow flesh and one makes pink flesh. Both > are doing very well. I found out this year I am not allergic to > citrus. I tell you, ageing is not for sissy's. >Hi, any special care needed for your lemon trees? I am little sceptic >as mine tend to shrink... Is it because of the soil? > >Alex What do you mean they shrink? The fruits shrink? Mine are in 30 gallon tubs which go in the greenhouse in winter. For me they are mostly evergreen. Though they are in tubs, I mulch them and use granular organic fertilizer about three times during the growing season. They are growing in a fertile soil mix half fungal compost and a few shovels of ground soil along with potting pro mix. They need to be watered a lot because of the heat and lack of rain in TX. |
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