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Still have whiteflies

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Marie Dodge - 25 Jul 2008 06:32 GMT
OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small green
babies that look like minute aphids. My friend, looking at them today, said
she believes they also have spider mites.  Her eyesight is better than mine.
The NeemOil did almost nothing nor did the Seven dust or Malathion or
Bug-Be-Gone. I also sprayed the garden with 1 Tbs. Epsom Salt per gallon of
water and if anything, the failed peppers and infested tomatoes look worse
today. Any suggestions to save our crops this year?  The squash are too far
gone with millions of white fly and borers. The squash crop will be removed
and burned tomorrow.  It's impossible to get the sprays under all the many
thousands of leaves.  Suggestions anyone... other than to torch the three
entire gardens.
Omelet - 25 Jul 2008 17:05 GMT
> OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small green
> babies that look like minute aphids. My friend, looking at them today, said
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> thousands of leaves.  Suggestions anyone... other than to torch the three
> entire gardens.

Try Tobacco tea.

Worked for mom for aphids.

Soak some cigarettes in water.

Too bad you can't find and dump a bunch of ladybug larvae... IME,
natural predators work better than any pesticides if  you can introduce
them in great enough numbers.

I bought lacewing eggs to control scale on my succulents.
Have not seen a scale since. :-)
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Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

Billy - 25 Jul 2008 20:14 GMT
> > OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small green
> > babies that look like minute aphids. My friend, looking at them today, said
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Soak some cigarettes in water.

I haven't used this but the caution was that it is a wide range general
insecticide which is also toxic to mammals. If the nicotine in one
cigarette could get into your body, you would be dead.

Nicotine and Soap Wash.

This is for Aphids, Apple Sucker, Cuckoo Spit, Leaf Miners,
and all forms of young Caterpillars.

Nicotine (96 per cent purity)ŠŠ. 1 ? - 2 ? oz.
Soft SoapŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠ... 4 oz.
Soft WaterŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠ. 20 Gals.

Pour the Nicotine into the dissolved soap in the water, and apply as a
fine spray,

BUT

avoid using it on any plants the leaves of which are likely to be cooked
or eaten in less than four or five weeks. The same remark applies to
fruit.

> Too bad you can't find and dump a bunch of ladybug larvae... IME,
> natural predators work better than any pesticides if  you can introduce
> them in great enough numbers.
>
> I bought lacewing eggs to control scale on my succulents.
> Have not seen a scale since. :-)
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Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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Marie Dodge - 26 Jul 2008 02:20 GMT
> I haven't used this but the caution was that it is a wide range general
> insecticide which is also toxic to mammals. If the nicotine in one
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Soft SoapSSSSSSSSS... 4 oz.
> Soft WaterSSSSSSSSS. 20 Gals.

What does SSSSSSSSS mean?  I'll get some ciggies from my husband and soak
them. I spent so much on this garden already I hesitate to toss good money
after bad.

> Pour the Nicotine into the dissolved soap in the water, and apply as a
> fine spray,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> or eaten in less than four or five weeks. The same remark applies to
> fruit.

This is our tomatoes and peppers. In a month the toms will be rotten on the
ground if I can't can them in the next few weeks.

>> Too bad you can't find and dump a bunch of ladybug larvae... IME,
>> natural predators work better than any pesticides if  you can introduce
>> them in great enough numbers.
>>
>> I bought lacewing eggs to control scale on my succulents.
>> Have not seen a scale since. :-)
Omelet - 26 Jul 2008 02:50 GMT
In article
<wildbilly-266E8A.12142925072008@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,

> > Soak some cigarettes in water.
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> or eaten in less than four or five weeks. The same remark applies to
> fruit.

Good caution. :-) As far as I know, mom only ever used it on Roses...
Signature

Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

Marie Dodge - 26 Jul 2008 02:16 GMT
>> OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small
>> green
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> natural predators work better than any pesticides if  you can introduce
> them in great enough numbers.

We're not rich enough to buy the numbers we would need to control this
whietfly and mite invasion. Also, it's well known here the ladybugs and
other beneficial insects/bugs don't hang around. In 48 hours they're gone
and you're back where you started but with a lighter wallet.

> I bought lacewing eggs to control scale on my succulents.
> Have not seen a scale since. :-)
Omelet - 26 Jul 2008 02:53 GMT
> > Too bad you can't find and dump a bunch of ladybug larvae... IME,
> > natural predators work better than any pesticides if  you can introduce
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> other beneficial insects/bugs don't hang around. In 48 hours they're gone
> and you're back where you started but with a lighter wallet.

Note I said "larvae". ;-) Those can't fly.

I collected a couple of hundred ladybugs a few  years ago in the
parkinglot at work one night. They were all over the cars near a street
lamp! Guess it was  a migration of some sort.

Brought them home and have had a lot of baby ones around ever since.
Guess they laid their eggs before leaving. :-)
Signature

Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

Marie Dodge - 27 Jul 2008 04:42 GMT
>> > Too bad you can't find and dump a bunch of ladybug larvae... IME,
>> > natural predators work better than any pesticides if  you can introduce
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Brought them home and have had a lot of baby ones around ever since.
> Guess they laid their eggs before leaving. :-)

Wish I could find some free insects that eat spidermites and whitefly and
their larvae. Tomorrow I'm going to hit them with Need Oil and a dab of soap
again.
Isabella Woodhouse - 25 Jul 2008 21:17 GMT
> OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small green
> babies that look like minute aphids. My friend, looking at them today, said
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> thousands of leaves.  Suggestions anyone... other than to torch the three
> entire gardens.

While we don't usually have this happen in the gardens, I keep some
plants on my deck and they have a tendency to get whitefly when it is
especially hot and dry.  To forestall this, I spray the foliage every
day with the hose after the late-afternoon watering, paying special
attention to the undersides of the leaves.  That works about 70% of the
time for me.  When it doesn't, I use those sticky yellow traps (like
cardboard) and those catch gazillions of whiteflies and aphids.  
However, you need to situate them so that the birds cannot sit atop them
and get stuck.  I think there are pheromones for them as well.  

I can really identify with your squash problems.  Those squash vine
borers are really horrible.  I can't tell you how many times my DH has
had to do "surgery" on the vines in the past to save them.  This year,
for the first time, we put row covers over the zucchini (four different
cultivars) and they are all producing and doing well.  I go out early
every morning and hand-pollinate the female flowers with a little brush.  
This is not at all difficult with squash flowers.  We've never, ever had
summer squash this nice before.   We use the lightest weight 8 foot wide
Agribond (like cloth not plastic) over a make-do lashed wood frame.  We
started with tensile steel hoops but the plants were much to large and
vigorous for them.  Our beds are 4 feet wide and we're smack dab in the
middle of the country.  

We're going to use row covers on some fall crops as well, both to keep
out pests and extend the season.  Best thing since sliced bread.

Isabella
Signature

"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"  
-T.S. Eliot

Marie Dodge - 26 Jul 2008 02:23 GMT
>> OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small
>> green
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> We're going to use row covers on some fall crops as well, both to keep
> out pests and extend the season.  Best thing since sliced bread.

The cost of trying to grow some of our own food is more costly than we'd pay
at the store we're finding. What did these row covers cost you if I may be
so bold?

> Isabella
Isabella Woodhouse - 26 Jul 2008 06:21 GMT
> >> [...] The squash are too far gone with millions of white fly and
> >> borers. The squash crop will be removed and burned tomorrow.  It's
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> > vigorous for them.  Our beds are 4 feet wide and we're smack dab in
> > the middle of the country.

> > We're going to use row covers on some fall crops as well, both to keep
> > out pests and extend the season.  Best thing since sliced bread.
>
> The cost of trying to grow some of our own food is more costly than we'd pay
> at the store we're finding. What did these row covers cost you if I may be
> so bold?

We only had a 50' long piece that my husband said he bought two years
ago and just now got around to trying.  He said it was reasonable but
does not recall the price.  The product is reusable unless it gets torn
up by hail or deer I guess.  He asked me to order more for the fall so
I've just started looking at prices.  Johnny's has Agribon in different
weights (sorry I misspelled it in my other post).  The lightweight
insect barrier is 118" x 250' for $51.  It looks like lightweight
non-woven interfacing for sewing.  It lets in the light and the rain,
though the heavier stuff for cold weather does block more light.  No
doubt others have it too and there are other brands.  

I don't think anything can guarantee that you'll never see a bad pest
like the SVB again but, for us, we finally have a really nice crop
without extraordinary effort.  The pests may eventually find them, who
knows?  But I've already had a better crop by the end of July than I had
in any previous entire season.  And best of all, no spraying whatsoever.  
I did have to let out a bumblebee today that must have gone in there
when I was pollinating them earlier.  I told him there were plenty of
other flowers for him to visit other than the squash. ;)  We use ground
staples, rocks and old broken pots to hold down the fabric.  And in
places where I needed to join fabric pieces (his test size was not quite
wide enough), I used my quilting gun that shoots tiny little plastic
ties (I use those instead of safety pins for my quilts).

Isabella
Signature

"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"  
-T.S. Eliot

Marie Dodge - 27 Jul 2008 04:45 GMT
> We only had a 50' long piece that my husband said he bought two years
> ago and just now got around to trying.  He said it was reasonable but
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> wide enough), I used my quilting gun that shoots tiny little plastic
> ties (I use those instead of safety pins for my quilts).

Thank you. It's something for us to consider for next year. SVB are so bad
here most of the gardeners we know gave up on summer squash long ago.

> Isabella
Isabella Woodhouse - 29 Jul 2008 21:30 GMT
> > I don't think anything can guarantee that you'll never see a bad pest
> > like the SVB again but, for us, we finally have a really nice crop
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Thank you. It's something for us to consider for next year. SVB are so bad
> here most of the gardeners we know gave up on summer squash long ago.

You're very welcome.  I can't tell you how pleasantly surprised I was to
find something that worked so well.  I suspect that these types of row
covers are going to be a big help to the home gardener.  

Isabella
Signature

"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"  
-T.S. Eliot

Billy - 26 Jul 2008 07:23 GMT
> >> OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small
> >> green
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> The cost of trying to grow some of our own food is more costly than we'd pay
> at the store we're finding.

So you'd rather pay a lower price to suck down pesticide residues?
Just no accounting for some peoples taste.

> What did these row covers cost you if I may be
> so bold?
>
> > Isabella
Signature


Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related

Omelet - 26 Jul 2008 18:35 GMT
In article
<wildbilly-6CCD11.23230825072008@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,

> > The cost of trying to grow some of our own food is more costly than we'd
> > pay
> > at the store we're finding.
>
> So you'd rather pay a lower price to suck down pesticide residues?
> Just no accounting for some peoples taste.

Hit the local Farmers Markets.
Ours is every Tuesday.
Signature

Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

Marie Dodge - 27 Jul 2008 04:55 GMT
> In article
> <wildbilly-6CCD11.23230825072008@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Hit the local Farmers Markets.
> Ours is every Tuesday.

Not everyone has a farmer's market close by.  Ours is at least 30 miles
away.  A 60 mi round trip and we learned that many of the so called
"farmers" are nothing but people buying from the big wholesalers and
re-selling it at the FMs.  It's no telling where the produce originated.
Also, there is no way to know what chemicals the original farmers used on
the crops.
Omelet - 27 Jul 2008 10:06 GMT
> > In article
> > <wildbilly-6CCD11.23230825072008@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Also, there is no way to know what chemicals the original farmers used on
> the crops.

When gas was under $2.00 per gallon, a 60 mile trip was nothing. That's
no longer true. :-(  It's not legal for farmers market sellers to sell
commercial produce!  If you know of some that are doing that, you need
to report them.

I can tell by the condition of the FM produce here that it's locally
grown, plus I personally know some of the people. :-)

I've dabbled with the concept of hydroponics to save on water costs...
Signature

Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

Marie Dodge - 27 Jul 2008 21:05 GMT
>> > In article
>> > <wildbilly-6CCD11.23230825072008@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> commercial produce!  If you know of some that are doing that, you need
> to report them.

It's of no use. You can't prove they bought the stuff from wholesalers. Only
those claiming they're selling organic food have to show some kind of
papers. And then there is no telling if what they sell came from their own
organic farm or their friend's farm down the road who uses all kinds of
pesticides.  People will find ways to get around anything.  :(   Gas here
now is running around $3.85 g.

> I can tell by the condition of the FM produce here that it's locally
> grown, plus I personally know some of the people. :-)
>
> I've dabbled with the concept of hydroponics to save on water costs...

I looked into it but it's too costly.
Marie Dodge - 27 Jul 2008 04:52 GMT
>> >> OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small
>> >> green
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> So you'd rather pay a lower price to suck down pesticide residues?
> Just no accounting for some peoples taste.

And just how are you avoiding sucking down pesticide residues with the
things you do buy in the store?  Or do you buy nothing edible in the stores?
Are you saying you filter all your water and grow every bite of food you
eat?  You raise your own pesticide free grain to bake your own bread?  Do
you raise your own livestock and how do you feed them without them sucking
down pesticide residues from the commercial feeds which is transported into
their meat?  What are you feeding your hens for 100% pesticide free eggs and
meat?  Or your hogs and beef cattle?  And knowing there are toxic chemicals
in furniture and carpets these days... are all your furnishings wood you
grew yourself to make sure it's pesticide and preservative free?  If no to
any of these questions then you are both absorbing toxic chemicals as well
as sucking them in every day. Get off your high horse.

>> What did these row covers cost you if I may be
>> so bold?
>>
>> > Isabella
Billy - 27 Jul 2008 07:37 GMT
(edited)

> >> The cost of trying to grow some of our own food is more costly than we'd
> >> pay
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> any of these questions then you are both absorbing toxic chemicals as well
> as sucking them in every day. Get off your high horse.

Dodge,
I'm sorry that you can't read English with comprehension
but that is not my problem. The statement I was responding to
was,  
>> The cost of trying to grow some of our own food is more costly
>> than we'd pay at the store we're finding.
Rather labored English (almost German construction), I'll grant
you but the results was making an equivalency between financial
cost and the cost to one's personal health. I don't care if you
learn the difference or not. If you'd rather pay a lower price to
suck down pesticide residues,it is no concern of mine. As I said, there
is "Just no accounting for some peoples taste".

If you wish to feed your loved ones poison, there isn't much I can do
about it. Whatever other twisted opinions you have of my objective
statement is of no interest to me. Piss off.

"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death."  ~Rachel Carson, Silent Spring, 1962
Signature


Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related

Marie Dodge - 27 Jul 2008 21:08 GMT
Bullshit snip...................

> "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
> now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
> conception until death."  ~Rachel Carson, Silent Spring, 1962

Exactly, so get off your high horse.
Omelet - 26 Jul 2008 02:52 GMT
In article
<noway-A7A637.15172125072008@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,

> > OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small green
> > babies that look like minute aphids. My friend, looking at them today, said
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> Isabella

Wow, I'll have to try that!  I'd given up on growing squash long ago
because of the borers...
Signature

Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

Charlie - 26 Jul 2008 08:55 GMT
>Suggestions anyone... other than to torch the three entire gardens.

Yes.

Charlie

"The insufferable arrogance of human beings to think that Nature was
made solely for their benefit, as if it was conceivable that the sun
had been set afire merely to ripen men's apples and head their
cabbages."  ~Savinien de Cyrano de Bergerac, États et empires de la
lune, 1656
Mike - 26 Jul 2008 17:35 GMT
> OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small green
> babies that look like minute aphids. My friend, looking at them today, said
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> water and if anything, the failed peppers and infested tomatoes look worse
> today. Any suggestions to save our crops this year?

I found Sevin liquid concentrate 1 tablespoon per quart of water in a spray
bottle works OK.
The spray leaves a chalky residue on the leaves that dissipates in a couple
of weeks.

I'm real keen now on how to identify, locate, search and destroy crop
infesting parasites.
For instance I found a small worn camping out in a corn silk that would
eventually turn into a big ugly.

The first clue was some small tender leaves that had been chewed.
Marie Dodge - 27 Jul 2008 04:58 GMT
>> OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small
>> green
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> The first clue was some small tender leaves that had been chewed.

Sounds like corn ear worm, another very common garden pest where I live. If
you beat the CEWs, the coons, crows and deer get the corn.  :-)
John Savage - 14 Aug 2008 03:33 GMT
>OK guys, my tomatoes are still covered with whitefly and their small green
>babies that look like minute aphids. My friend, looking at them today, said
>she believes they also have spider mites.  Her eyesight is better than mine.
>The NeemOil did almost nothing nor did the Seven dust or Malathion or
>Bug-Be-Gone. I also sprayed the garden with 1 Tbs. Epsom Salt per gallon of

Do you have Comfidor there?  That's the chemical spray that is
recommended for whitefly here in Australia.  It is one of the sprays
with low-toxicity residues.  COMFIDOR
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John Savage                (my news address is not valid for email)

John Savage - 16 Aug 2008 03:56 GMT
I wrote:

>Do you have Comfidor there?  That's the chemical spray that is
>recommended for whitefly here in Australia.  It is one of the sprays
>with low-toxicity residues.  COMFIDOR

The spelling is actually CONFIDOR. It's a Bayer product.
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