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Homeowner Forum / Construction / August 2008Why do we need Unions
Our good conditions of employment came from union action over the past century. Unions provide the level playing field and the balance needed for justice. Employer organization's refer to union bosses' excesses. They ignore the excesses of the company bosses, their failures and their obscene pay, 130 times the average workers' pay. Why do we need Unions? Only an idiot refuses to see the writing's on the wall. Millwright Ron www.unionmillwright.com for a correct answer, start here: http://ugleenakedguy.blogspot.com/2004/09/why-unions-are-bad-idea.html http://www.physiciansnews.com/commentary/397.html http://www.usndemvet.com/blog/archives/001297.html http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/25/2042274.htm if you're a typical labor union worker those links should take you about a month to read and have interpreted. > Our good conditions of employment came from union action over the past > century. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > www.unionmillwright.com > Our good conditions of employment came from union action over the past > century. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > www.unionmillwright.com When unions started in the late 1800's they had a purpose, to improve the quality of the working conditions and compensation of the workers who had no other means of organization or representation. They were very successful in accomplishing this task and we can all thank them today for that. They helped to change government policy and improve the work place for every working American. As time went on our government forged into law many of the policies that the labor unions fought so diligently bring about - a minimum wage, safety regulations, hours worked per week, etc.. Thus, they accomplished what they set out to do. However, like many organizations that start out with a purpose in mind and eventually accomplish their goals, they refused to surrender to victory and disband. They became fixated more with self perseveration than the welfare of the society as a whole. They no longer were satisfied with fair and amicable arraignments between workers and employers. They started to feel the power and wanted to turn the tables in their favor. They got greedy! We are now starting to see the result of that abuse of power. In no other country could you find a broom pusher making $16.00 per hour. Why? The laws of capitalism (unbridled by artificial regulations - unions)- if you could hire a non-union 18 year olds fresh out of high school for $7 or $8 per hour than what justification is there to hire a union person for $16.00 or more per hour? Does the union person sweep twice as much in an hour?, I don't think so! Ask GM what their greatest advisary to profitibility is and they will tell you the cost of union labor. If they, GM, cut their labor force by thousands of workers then how is it that the union helped those thousands of unemployed people? None!!! They, the union, simply raised the cost of labor so high that the company had to cut the labor force or send production over seas or go out of business. We in America are already enjoying a better life than just about every other country in the world, even if we are doing it at minimum wage. Unions have accomplished their goal of creating a work environment that is, by the laws of capitalism and American society, quite well suited for the worker. Most of them can afford to buy the American dream, a nice house and some land, which can not be said for most of the world. Just look at what they are doing to American society. Call centers are moving to India because the labor costs are lower, manufacturing is moving to Mexico and China because the labor costs are lower, etc.. The American union would be a great thing for the American worker if everything was kept within the American borders but that is not the case. The economic world is now fluid between countries and if labor is too high here then the jobs will simply flow to other countries where the labor costs are lower, Wal-Mart became the giant it is today because of this very fact. Most unions today are self defeating in that they are simply driving the labor costs of doing business so high in America that the benefit of doing business else ware is well worth the hassle. How is this good for the American worker? It's not!!! What we will be left with, if unions continue on the course they are on, is an economic melt down of America showing unemployment rates at levels that can only be compared to those experienced during the great depression of the 1930's. Unions fail to comprehend the fact that they are now looking at the labor force of the whole world rather than just the USA. They, if they want any chance to survive, must take this into consideration. If they could influence the EC and China then I would be their greatest supporter but if they can't then I choose not to be on a sinking ship. Chris VERY well said! I've saved this text for future use. I could never say it right. s > When unions started in the late 1800's they had a purpose, to improve the > quality of the working conditions and compensation of the workers who had [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Chris > VERY well said! I've saved this text for future use. I could never say > it right. The first machine shop I worked in was union. Didn't know any better, so I joined. Won't ever make that mistake again. The union was self serving, and in the pocket of the company. > VERY well said! I've saved this text for future use. I could never say > it right. You're welcome! And, thank you for the compliment! Just remember that not all unions are all bad. Very few things are that black and white. Even though I may have painted a sorry picture of today's unions they do sometimes serve a good purpose. I have a friend who lives here in Arizona but spends about 6 months a year in Alaska. He is a semi-retired electrician who works freelance and is a member of a union. Every year when he goes to Alaska he will sign in at the union hall. They, the union, will handle all the work to get him jobs up there and they act like a temp. agency. They are one central location where labor can find work and they are one central location where customers can go to find competent labor to do the job they need done. Just one example of how some unions have changed with the times. And, if they are not careful then they may start to move in the right direction. However, this union does still keep the price of labor artificially inflated and it also artificially restricts the labor force. It is after all a union. Chris > You're welcome! > And, thank you for the compliment! > > Just remember that not all unions are all bad. Very few things are that > black and white. Even though I may have painted a sorry picture of today's > unions they do sometimes serve a good purpose. Very true. Unions just aren't for me. > > Our good conditions of employment came from union action over the past > > century. [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > Chris Unions understand all of these things about the global economy which is just a management tactic to avoid fair compensation for work. We also know that we are not responsible for slave work conditions in the rest of the world and we can't do justice for the member by cutting wages to southeast asian standards just so we can have jobs. The goods you buy from super cheap labor regions don't reflect the low cost the manufacturing company has. The prices are the same or higher which indicates huge profits for a few top execs. The workers are often young local girls who are forced to work long hours and give sexual favors to foremen and they are then kicked to the curb when a fresh new kid is available to work. The fact is that most consumers don't understand the long term impact of thoughtless buying decisions. It is hard to buy "American" these days buy the market is the thing that we control, the manufacturing process is long gone. You are in effect drilling holes in your own ship. Once the unions helped cure the terrible child labor laws and other injustices, they ceased having a purpose. Civil and criminal penalties have been put into place that obsolete unions. It's like a buggy whip; once it had a purpose, now it doesn't. I drive my daughter to a private school 25 miles one way because of the incredible damage the unions have done to our education system. Union teachers do not want to teach. Remember Jaime Edscalante? The teacher in the movie Stand and Deliver who taught calculus to barrio students? Who finally got him fired? Union "educators". Why? Someone tell me, please... > Our good conditions of employment came from union action over the past > century. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > www.unionmillwright.com > Once the unions helped cure the terrible child labor laws and other > injustices, they ceased having a purpose. Civil and criminal penalties have [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Unions are needed today more than ever because of the unchallenged power of CEOs and the ability of companies to shut down and go overseas for cheap unregulated labor. No other organizations can come close to the power of the "business roundtable" and manufacturers asso and the chamber of commerce. These people put millions into politics to get what they want from our tax dollars while not paying any themselves. They are creating a slave class to replace the middle class. One need only look at the wage differential increases of the last few decades between the CEOs and the workers. Hundreds of times the pay of ordinary workers, sometimes thousands of times the pay. All the while more and more people in this country can't afford basic health care but every other country gives it away as a human right. Unions have much more to do in the future Their work will never be done. >> Once the unions helped cure the terrible child labor laws and other >> injustices, they ceased having a purpose. Civil and criminal penalties have [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >Unions are needed today more than ever because of the unchallenged >power of CEOs Dear god, Millwright Ronnie has morphed to get by my <plonk> Gee, Ronnie, I can block you with this ID too. <plonk> Ah, it all comes down to money, doesn't it? If you wanted to make CEO money, you should have become a CEO. Surely, you knew going in that a millright makes less than a CEO. That didn't stop you then, did it? Do you want to be responsible to stockholders or a board that can say, sorry, we don't like you, YOU'RE FIRED. You wouldn't like that. I know your type. You are the guy that if someone asks them to work 2 minutes past quitting time, you're on the phone to the shop steward complaining about injuctices. I've been on the other side. I didn't like being a CEO (actually, in my case, a CFO). You lie awake at night, worrying about a contract that may get cancelled, or funding that may nnot happen, or competitors that are trying to eat your lunch. In my case, it causes ulcers I have to this day. You work 20 hours a day, for weeks on end at budget time, and you sweat every budget item, scared to death that something will happen to the price or availablity of some vital raw material that literally puts you out of business. You go ahead. You try that and then you complain to me about the injustice between the CEOs and the working man who has no worries beyond why he isn't paid as much as the CEO. Unions are needed today more than ever because of the unchallenged power of CEOs and the ability of companies to shut down and go overseas for cheap unregulated labor. No other organizations can come close to the power of the "business roundtable" and manufacturers asso and the chamber of commerce. These people put millions into politics to get what they want from our tax dollars while not paying any themselves. They are creating a slave class to replace the middle class. One need only look at the wage differential increases of the last few decades between the CEOs and the workers. Hundreds of times the pay of ordinary workers, sometimes thousands of times the pay. All the while more and more people in this country can't afford basic health care but every other country gives it away as a human right. Unions have much more to do in the future Their work will never be done. > Ah, it all comes down to money, doesn't it? If you wanted to make CEO money, > you should have become a CEO. Surely, you knew going in that a millright [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Unions have much more to do in the future Their work will never be > done. Maybe you were not cut out for the big time CFO lifestyle. I don't worry that they make more than me but when they make ridulously high salerys and use the money to stack the deck against the people who made them so stinking rich I have a problem with that. And btw I am a CEO myself and I know about the pressures of business. > Our good conditions of employment came from union action over the past > century. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > www.unionmillwright.com "IF" mankind did the right thing we woudl not need Unions, Government, Laws or have too pay Taxes. So sweet it woudl be. Andy Do the right thing > "IF" mankind did the right thing we would not need Unions That's not true! Unions _are_ necessary. If we didn't have unions we couldn't easily take apart plumbing to replace water heaters and the like. R good point. s On Aug 22, 1:10 pm, Andy Energy <andyene...@earthlink.net> wrote: > "IF" mankind did the right thing we would not need Unions That's not true! Unions _are_ necessary. If we didn't have unions we couldn't easily take apart plumbing to replace water heaters and the like. R |
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