Homeowner Forum / Construction / July 2008

He gave you a price if you like his work go with him, he doesnt want
to waste time writing out bids if you are still shopping, so shop and
get bids. What he is doing is normal since he is busy.

I can't speak as to the commonplace in the masonary/construction field, but
as a landscape contrator, I can certainly respect his attitutude. Often
times on estimates, I try to feel out the enthusiasm a potential client has
for a project before I decide how involved I will get in the estimate at
first. If I get the sense that they are either price shopping or don't have
any real idea of what a project should cost, I will hold off before spending
lots of time selling the project. Like your contractor, I am rarely the
cheapest because I will only do the project if I can do it right and do it
well. I probably wouldn't have been as blunt as the contractor in your
situation, but the end result may have been the same. I should say, however,
that I don't know how you behaved during the meeting. If I got the sense
that you were interested in have quality work done, had a good idea of what
you were going to pay, I would have taken the estimate out further and tried
to sell myself to get the job.

I would assume you discussed during his time with you what the
basic materials were to be.  My prime concern would have been
footing design and steel.  He has already spent at least an hour
with you plus driving time two ways to see the job.  He has spent
another hour assembling material quantities and current pricing
(some of this stuff changes daily).  How many dollars do you want
him to spend on you with only a slight possibility of a job?

"Mr John Doe" <USA@god.bless.america> wrote in message

Don't be so quick to pass on him.  Get the other bids and find out what they
propose, then talk to him again. He just may be the best of the lot.  If he
is a good craftsman, he may be very busy. Rather than waste time doing a
formal proposal that you can use to pass on to others, he's going to wait
until you decide you want a quality job.

Check a few jobs he's done before you make a decision.

I know other contractors that have that kind of attitude and they are booked
up with work for half a year or so.  They do good work and don't waste time
writing up proposals for window shoppers.  Often people request a quote
expecting $3000 and when they find that the typical cost is $12,000, they
pass.  Meantime, the contractor spent a lot of time for nothing.

Your appear to be uninterested in the "quality" of his work.
If you are not interested in that, you are asking for trouble.
As someone else said, the structural design is the first concern, then
the execution.
TB

At one point I was charging for writing up bids I was so busy. He
probably could spend all day just writing up bids but his jobs come
first. He has no idea if you will even do the work or just want the
cheapest price.

I'd give this guy a second look.  He's honest.  He diplomatically told you
he doesn't want to take his time to give you a bid if you're "looking into
it".  That actually takes about half a day for him.  It also gives you a
list to shop other contractors with.  Next, he's hungry.  He told you to get
all the prices and he'd see if he could beat it.  If there was plenty of
work, he'd shoot you a high price, take it or leave it.  A good block man
can size up a job in minutes unless there's a lot of complicated stuff.
Otherwise, it isn't rocket surgery.  If he invited you to view his "quality"
work at other jobsites, then he's telling you that he does good work, isn't
the cheapest, and that is NOT blah, blah, blah.  It's bullshit when they
tell you but can't provide any addresses because "they don't want the people
living there bothered."

I'd definitely keep him in mind, and realize that you can get cheaper work.
They just use less concrete, used bricks, shortcuts, the dregs they can pick
up at Home Depot parking lot that day, and they disappear after you paid
them.

My experience after putting up thousands of feet of wrought iron for various
block guys.  You do what you want.

Steve

Multiple bids is one thing, multiple materials lists is another.  Did
he give you a written bid including the work to be done?

I had one prospective contractor like that.  I didn't use him.  I wasn't
looking for a formal write up, just a basic pencil note with initial
estimate of a job.  He wouldn't do that until I did substantially
destructive demolition style pre-work 'to prove I was serious' that would
have mandated I have the job done immediately afterwards.  I felt this
particular person was shady even though he may not have been.  I'll never
know.  The job was a minimum of 35,000$ and I don't think asking for a
pencil note estimate rough was absurd in a case like that. (Work long since
done by another and for 1/3rd less).  His attitude put me off.  Probably
mutual there as I was asking 'how much' and he wasn't willing to answer
until he actually started the job.

I've had quite a bit of work done on the house and he's the only one who
wouldnt do a basic write up with estimate on the spot.  Most did come with
riders about finding extra damage once into the job and I can understand
that.

I even got one estimate for an AC/Heat unit via email.  I explained to the
company that I wasnt ready for the work this year but wanted a rough idea of
how much to put aside for next year, without wasting their time to come out.
They were happy to give me the general range of pricing after a few basic
questions.  No muss, no fuss, no high pressure salesman.  Good local
reputation.  Not the cheapest, but the work is solid.  When the time comes,
we will almost certainly go with them.

Ok so estimates here:
Chimney repair
Wood fence repair
Sunroom
Bathtub replacement
Electrical work (various small items but quite a few of them)
Several windows (including large bay)
Patio door
Back external door
AC Unit (email only, not firm but a guideline for what to save up)
Bricklayer for BBQ unit (only 1 estimate so far with pictures vice site
visit as of yet)

I recon with all those since Oct07, we are fairly familiar with what to
expect.   If your masonry fellow wont jot down a general spec with a list of
his standard materials attached (most have this preprinted and just circle
what applies), then call back later if he needs to so you can write in the
price estimate on the paper he left, he's not who I would go with.  Even the
bricklayer guy came back with an email with this info and is slated to come
over sometime next week to firm it up.  He gave a reasonable guess on repair
if repairable, and another for ripout and rebuild.  The ripout and rebuild
is a firm price.

Sorry to be long winded, but so many seemed to think it was 'ok' to not give
you specs til you contract.  The price of the visit and writeup, is added to
the work (hidden in the labor charges) and an expected part of doing
business.  Contractors may not like it, but thats part of the job.

Contractor may feel that you are shopping around?
You know that happens with estimates and contractors get numb to the "bid"
project only to know it was shopping around.......

A fence of that sort needs special attention.  I have see too many masonary
fences with a "lean" in them after a while.

Do you have specific detailed plans or are you asking each and every
contractor who comes up to do "his" plan and estimate on "his" drawing.
This is where prices and projects head in different directions.
You can have one contractor "bid" a cheap, quickly done job, with low cost
materials and no attention to detail and come up with a low price.  On the
other hand you may have a conscientious contractor, do some detailed,
engineered design, and seem overly priced.

Anyway, since I am not there, and do not know the situation, all I know is a
good set of details for the contractor, and specific materials drawn into
the plan will help with coming up with a good price.

jloomis

Tony's Rule of Quality Claims. Anyone is allowed to use the word quality
once in any conversation about their product. After that you can expect
to find a rhythmic decline in the actual  quality of their product for
every time the word is used thereafter. TonyG