Any experience here with solar panels or windmills?
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Thomas G. Marshall - 05 Jun 2008 16:31 GMT I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who have actually installed them.
ransley - 05 Jun 2008 19:40 GMT On Jun 5, 10:31 am, "Thomas G. Marshall" <tgm2tothe10thpo...@replacetextwithnumber.hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who > have actually installed them. alt.energy.homepower
willshak - 05 Jun 2008 22:27 GMT on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following:
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who > have actually installed them. Al Gore does not have solar panels, or any other energy saving improvements, installed on his 40,000 sq ft Nashville, Tennessee house. Since he is the recipient of an Academy Aware for his documentary, "An Inconvenient Truth", on global warming, I guess they don't work, or it is just us who haven't a wife that is the heiress of the Heinz fortune have to make the sacrifices. He uses over 18,000 kwh of electricity a month and his natural gas bill is over $1000 per month. George Bush does have energy saving improvements on his house in Crawford, Texas. No cites here, just Google it.
 Signature Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @
h - 05 Jun 2008 22:49 GMT > on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following: >> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Texas. > No cites here, just Google it. Al Gore calls himself an environmentalist, yet he has four (!) kids. Snort.
bill allemann - 06 Jun 2008 16:44 GMT but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors?
> Al Gore calls himself an environmentalist, yet he has four (!) kids. > Snort. Thomas G. Marshall - 06 Jun 2008 22:06 GMT bill allemann said something like:
> but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors? {chuckling}
The thing about {still chuckling} that internet comment is that I more or less understand what I *think* he meant by it, and it's more or less forgiveable. But it is without a doubt one of those comments that sticks to you like JB weld.
Bob F - 07 Jun 2008 03:49 GMT > bill allemann said something like: >> but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > But it is without a doubt one of those comments that sticks to you like JB > weld. He never said he "invented" the internet. He said he passed laws thet helped make it happen. The reported claim is pure bunk.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
Thomas G. Marshall - 07 Jun 2008 20:37 GMT Bob F said something like:
>> bill allemann said something like: >>> but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp Yes, I'm well aware of what he said. This statement:
During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.
...s enough to stick. Note the key components of this:
*I* -- Al Gore *I took the initiative* -- Al Gore did something on his own that was novel *creating the internet* -- creating means that there was no internet before, and then there was. "Invented" is hardly a far cry from that.
Did this statement float around without context? Yep. Did it stand all by itself as something obnoxious? No, I'm pretty sure what he meant by it, given the context of the conversation. But it is not "pure bunk"-----the public /misunderstanding/ of this is purely understandable.
tmurf.1@juno.com - 09 Jun 2008 03:28 GMT On Jun 7, 3:37 pm, "Thomas G. Marshall" <tgm2tothe10thpo...@replacetextwithnumber.hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bob F said something like: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The public misunderstanding is due to right wing lies and spin it was intentionally twisted to make him look rediculous and then repeated thousands of times and they are still doing it.
Erma1ina - 08 Jun 2008 01:35 GMT > > bill allemann said something like: > >> but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp Right.
But it took the Republican "slime machine" to obscure the truth and propagate the lie through an intellectually-lazy bunch of disgruntled "ditto heads" into the wider culture.
If you want to know what two of the acknowledged "internet wizzards" (Robert Kahn and Vint Cerf) thought [in 2000] about Al Gore's contributions to the creation and growth of the internet-as-we-know-it, check out:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/10/02/net_builders_kahn_cerf_recognise/
Here are some direct quotes:
"Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development. . . . AS THE TWO PEOPLE WHO DESIGNED THE BASIC ARCHITECTURE AND THE CORE PROTOCOLS THAT MAKE THE INTERNET WORK, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time. [Emphasis added] . . . "The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and promoting the Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it is timely to offer our perspective. . . . "As far back as the 1970s Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship. Though easily forgotten now, at the time this was an unproven and controversial concept. Our work on the Internet started in 1973 and was based on even earlier work that took place in the mid-late 1960s. But the Internet, as we know it today, was not deployed until 1983. . . . "As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks into an "Interagency Network. . . . Gore secured the passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991. This "Gore Act" supported the . . . initiative that became one of the major vehicles for the spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.
"As Vice President Gore promoted building the Internet both up and out, as well as releasing the Internet from the control of the government agencies that spawned it. . . . ". . . No one in public life has been more intellectually engaged in helping to create the climate for a thriving Internet than the Vice President."
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 00:54 GMT >on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following: >> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Crawford, Texas. >No cites here, just Google it. Just for openers, Tipper Gore is NOT the heiress of the Heinz fortune. I'll leave it to others to decide how much of the rest of your post is accurate.
Just for starters...
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06/al_gore_gets_a.php
Bob F - 06 Jun 2008 03:37 GMT >>on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following: >>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06/al_gore_gets_a.php That reference sure shoots down the previous idiots post.
tmurf.1@juno.com - 06 Jun 2008 02:07 GMT > on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > In Hamptonburgh, NY > To email, remove the double zeroes after @ John Kerry is married to Terissa Heinz not Al Gore
Thomas G. Marshall - 06 Jun 2008 03:13 GMT tmurf.1@juno.com said something like:
>> on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following: >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > John Kerry is married to Terissa Heinz not Al Gore John Kerry is not married to Al Gore?
willshak - 06 Jun 2008 19:08 GMT on 6/5/2008 9:07 PM tmurf.1@juno.com said the following:
> >> on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > John Kerry is married to Terissa Heinz not Al Gore > Ooops. All those democrats look alike to me. :-)
 Signature Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @
George - 05 Jun 2008 22:53 GMT > I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who > have actually installed them. You are working too hard. Just buy "carbon credits" and pat yourself on the back for being considerate and thoughtful.
Seriously the least expensive way to get a little greener is to look at your current consumption and see what you can reduce.
Pete C. - 05 Jun 2008 23:12 GMT > I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who > have actually installed them. alt.energy.homepower is the group with the expertise.
Charles - 05 Jun 2008 23:30 GMT > I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people > who have actually installed them. I have experience, but not as an installer. I use solar to heat a swimming pool and will soon add two more panels to heat hot water for the house.
One must look at a lot of factors. I did it because I believe that we must strive to use more renewable energy sources. I did not do it because it promised any monetary savings (it was not economically viable in my case). I think if lots of ordinary folks do what they can, the total impact will be significant.
As to the other posts about carbon energy credits and Mr. Gore (hypocrite!) ... sigh!
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 00:56 GMT >> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was >> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >As to the other posts about carbon energy credits and Mr. Gore (hypocrite!) >... sigh! Hypocrite?
http://www.truthandprogress.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=383
hallerb@aol.com - 06 Jun 2008 01:57 GMT On Jun 5, 7:56�pm, sa...@dog.com wrote:
> >> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > >> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > - Show quoted text - adding insulation, buying a FUEL EFFICENT VEHICLE, CF lights, these will no doubt net way larger savings than going solar or wind......
although all have advantages.
wind is location location location, solar needs living where you get lots of sun.. desert southwest good, pittsburgh why bother.
HeyBub - 06 Jun 2008 02:02 GMT >> As to the other posts about carbon energy credits and Mr. Gore >> (hypocrite!) ... sigh! > > Hypocrite? There's nothing intrinsically wrong with hypocrisy. 90% of gynecologists are male.
George - 06 Jun 2008 02:14 GMT >>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was >>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > http://www.truthandprogress.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=383 Absolutely, he lives in a 10,000 square foot piggy "house" and consumes 20 times the national average of electricity. Putting a couple solar panels on the roof doesn't mean he isn't a hypocrite.
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 03:09 GMT >>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was >>>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >20 times the national average of electricity. Putting a couple solar >panels on the roof doesn't mean he isn't a hypocrite. Your information was not only wrong when it was first touted, but it's even further from the truth now.
trader4@optonline.net - 06 Jun 2008 10:14 GMT On Jun 5, 10:09 pm, sa...@dog.com wrote:
> >sa...@dog.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yes, Al Gore is a hypocrite. He's only installed his solar panels very recently and that was after a year ago, when people publicly exposed his huge energy bills in his over size mansion. He'd been living with a utility bill of $30K a year, $500 a month just to heat his swimming pool, while running around telling the rest of us we're destroying the planet.
He still lives in a huge mansion and has at least one other home as well. He regularly flies around in private jets. Yet, his His movie "An Inconvenient Truth" asks "Are you ready to change the way you live?"
If that isn't a hypocrite, I don;t know what is.
Bob F - 06 Jun 2008 18:02 GMT <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message news:0933d55e-056d-4e1e-9082- Yes, Al Gore is a hypocrite. He's only installed his solar panels very recently and that was after a year ago, when people publicly exposed his huge energy bills in his over size mansion.
And he's been fighting the community for the right to install them all that time.
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 18:23 GMT ><trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message news:0933d55e-056d-4e1e-9082- >Yes, Al Gore is a hypocrite. He's only installed his solar panels [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >And he's been fighting the community for the right to install them all that >time. I didn't see Trader4's idiotic post because I filter all googlegroup tyros and spammers. I won't see his reply to this post unless it is quoted in a reply to him by someone who uses a real usenet server.
Gore installed the solar panels over a year ago, and before that, as you said, he had a long battle with his community over being allowed to install them. It was the local right-wing loonies like Trader4 and George that prevented him from doing it a long time ago. They also don't seem to understand that his "house" is more a business location than a residence. That's why it is so big and uses more energy than trader4's doublewide.
HeyBub - 06 Jun 2008 19:06 GMT > Gore installed the solar panels over a year ago, and before that, as > you said, he had a long battle with his community over being allowed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > than a residence. That's why it is so big and uses more energy than > trader4's doublewide. That doesn't sound right. Any community that has zoning regulations that require permitting for solar panels would certainly have restrictions on running a business from a home.
I think Gore is growing Marijuana in hydroponic ponds in his "home" and he wants to go off grid so the authorities don't get suspicious over his high energy requirements.
Bob F - 06 Jun 2008 22:06 GMT > I think Gore is growing Marijuana in hydroponic ponds in his "home" and he > wants to go off grid so the authorities don't get suspicious over his high > energy requirements. Which is to say - You don't think.
Thomas G. Marshall - 06 Jun 2008 22:08 GMT HeyBub said something like:
>> Gore installed the solar panels over a year ago, and before that, as >> you said, he had a long battle with his community over being allowed [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and he wants to go off grid so the authorities don't get suspicious > over his high energy requirements. Jeepers. I should have crossposted this to alt.home.repair.crankybastards
:) Everything I post in these parts seems steeped in gasoline and ignites from static!
George - 06 Jun 2008 11:36 GMT >>>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was >>>>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Your information was not only wrong when it was first touted, but it's even > further from the truth now. Putting a couple panels on a piggy 10,000 square foot "house" doesn't change anything. Putting panels on a normal sized efficient house certainly would. This is algore after all who is telling us what we should all do. In fact it is no different than a drug addict lecturing us about the evils of drugs while continuing to push stuff up his nose.
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 13:38 GMT >>>>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was >>>>>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >should all do. In fact it is no different than a drug addict lecturing >us about the evils of drugs while continuing to push stuff up his nose. His house is actually mostly used for office space, just like any other 10,000 square foot office building. I'm not talking a spare bedroom used as a home office. This office has a staff or employees. And he didn't "just put a couple of panels on the roof", nitwit. In fact, he would have covered his roof with panels sooner, but local codes prevented it. The house is also using geo-thermal, and many other measures to save energy. This work was completed well over a year ago.
Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head that would improve your meager brain power.
trader4@optonline.net - 06 Jun 2008 15:05 GMT On Jun 6, 8:38 am, sa...@dog.com wrote:
> >sa...@dog.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > other measures to save energy. This work was completed well over a > year ago. Yes, they started installing it a year ago, right after he was exposed in the media as a big hypocrite. Prior to that, his energy bill was $30K a year. That;s right $30K/ a year. He had the time to make the movie Inconvenient Truth, where he asked "Are you ready to change the way you live?", but apparently no interest himself that he was using 15 times the energy of a typical home. BTW, $6K of that was for the pool. Does every office building typically have one of those too?
I'd like to see a credible reference for his house being mostly office space. Does that meet the zoning? When he got hammered early last year, I never heard any such defense offered.
Add to that the guy regularly flies around by private jet, and yes, you have one big hypocrite!
> Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head > that would improve your meager brain power.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - trader4@optonline.net - 06 Jun 2008 22:05 GMT On Jun 6, 10:05 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:38 am, sa...@dog.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I'm still waiting for the reference to support the claims that:
1 - Al Gore's office TN home of 10,000 square feet is mostly office space. I can just see that. The guy builds a big house and instead of it being for him to live in, it's an office park for worker bees. I don't buy it.
2 - That Al Gore had wanted to use solar for years, but was prevented from doing it by neighbors, the community, etc. All the evidence I have seen doesn't mention any interest, permit applications, etc. He only started to get interested in doing something when he was exposed by the medai, like the below USA piece which does a pretty good job. Note that he has THREE homes, and nowhere is there any mention of "office space."
I did find plenty to support that he is an energy hog and hypocrite thought:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-08-09-gore-green_x.htm
"Public records reveal that as Gore lectures Americans on excessive consumption, he and his wife Tipper live in two properties: a 10,000- square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a 4,000- square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in Carthage, Tenn.) For someone rallying the planet to pursue a path of extreme personal sacrifice, Gore requires little from himself.
Then there is the troubling matter of his energy use. In the Washington, D.C., area, utility companies offer wind energy as an alternative to traditional energy. In Nashville, similar programs exist. Utility customers must simply pay a few extra pennies per kilowatt hour, and they can continue living their carbon-neutral lifestyles knowing that they are supporting wind energy. Plenty of businesses and institutions have signed up. Even the Bush administration is using green energy for some federal office buildings, as are thousands of area residents.
But according to public records, there is no evidence that Gore has signed up to use green energy in either of his large residences. When contacted Wednesday, Gore's office confirmed as much but said the Gores were looking into making the switch at both homes. Talk about inconvenient truths. "
tmurf.1@juno.com - 07 Jun 2008 02:47 GMT On Jun 6, 10:05 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:38 am, sa...@dog.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > - Show quoted text - so what if he is a hypocrite ? That is his problem. The fact that he is correct about global warming is not changed by his personal behavior. It is still a good idea to cut back on energy use and do all the things Al Gore recommends regardless of what he does personaly. When ever one of you right wing nuts tries to talk the first thing you do is change the subject to discredit someone rather than talking about the facts of the matter. Learn some new tactics.
Bob F - 07 Jun 2008 03:51 GMT so what if he is a hypocrite ? That is his problem. The fact that he is correct about global warming is not changed by his personal behavior. It is still a good idea to cut back on energy use and do all the things Al Gore recommends regardless of what he does personaly. When ever one of you right wing nuts tries to talk the first thing you do is change the subject to discredit someone rather than talking about the facts of the matter. Learn some new tactics.
****************************************************88
Thank would mean dealing with reality. No Thanks.
celticsoc@aol.com - 07 Jun 2008 07:49 GMT > <tmur...@juno.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thank would mean dealing with reality. No Thanks. Well, here's why being a hypocrite in this instance is a problem: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/06/04/gore-invests-carbon-credit -company-will-media-care
tmurf.1@juno.com - 09 Jun 2008 03:25 GMT On Jun 7, 2:49 am, "celtic...@aol.com" <celtic...@aol.com> wrote:
> > <tmur...@juno.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Well, here's why being a hypocrite in this instance is a problem:http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/06/04/gore-invests-ca... The only thing I get from that extremist artical is the fact that Al Gore put his money where his mouth is. He knows it is true and he believes it is a good investment and he trys to promote it. Not Hypocricy as I define it.
ke4fxc_at_knology_dot_net - 07 Jun 2008 11:29 GMT > On Jun 6, 10:05 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote: >> On Jun 6, 8:38 am, sa...@dog.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > first thing you do is change the subject to discredit someone rather > than talking about the facts of the matter. Learn some new tactics. OK here another one for you all to think about... Al Gore has a MAJOR Interest in a Carbon Trading Company... He can buy the credits he needs to stay neutral... SO if enough people cut back or use a different more green wayof living and sell there excess credit to the company then HE CAN MAKE MONEY ON THE TRADE and live like a hypocrite. because other people are saving carbon. IT's the same thing power company's are doing older power plants pay a "tax" to pollute and newer cleaner plants sell there credits.
BUT THESE CARBON TRADING COMPANY'S ARE MAKING THE MONEY IN FEES for there handling the exchange.The government set up the system. ANOTHER Form of hidden tax that gets passed on down to to the little person. People like Al Gore do as they please and sing all the way to the bank.
Charles
HeyBub - 07 Jun 2008 12:11 GMT > OK here another one for you all to think about... > Al Gore has a MAJOR Interest in a Carbon Trading Company... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > People like Al Gore do as they please and sing all the way to the > bank. Psst: Al Gore owns the carbon trading company.
It's like prostitution: You've got it. You sell it. You've still got it.
George - 07 Jun 2008 12:24 GMT >>>>>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was >>>>>>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head > that would improve your meager brain power. Next time you see al ask him about how silly ones position becomes when you make an Ad Hominem attack.
Out of curiosity what did algore do for you to gain your complete total love and devotion?
hallerb@aol.com - 07 Jun 2008 13:23 GMT > sa...@dog.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Al Gore might be obamas VP nominee:)
He could specialize in environmental issues, and brings experience to the presidency, since he was VP previously
Barney - 07 Jun 2008 15:02 GMT > Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head > that would improve your meager brain power. geez why don't you just go up there and su*k his di*k.
HeyBub - 07 Jun 2008 15:26 GMT > His house is actually mostly used for office space, just like any > other 10,000 square foot office building. I'm not talking a spare [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head > that would improve your meager brain power. Yeah, but he keeps flying in his private jet.
Thank goodness there's a new airline for fat-a.ses: Derrie-Air
http://flyderrie-air.com/
franz fripplfrappl - 06 Jun 2008 11:31 GMT > I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people > who have actually installed them. June 20-22, 2008 Midwest Renewable Energy Fair Custer, WI (near Stevens Point)
Great event with resources, vendors, presentations and workshops on all forms of alternative renewable energy.
http://www.the-mrea.org/energy_fair.php
 Signature ================================================= Franz Fripplfrappl
franz fripplfrappl - 06 Jun 2008 11:34 GMT > I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people > who have actually installed them. Vote Republican. It's not that they don't care. They just don't get it.
 Signature ================================================= Franz Fripplfrappl
Dioclese - 06 Jun 2008 13:58 GMT > I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people > who have actually installed them. Did some R&R in Italy while in the Navy, last time was 2001. Solar heating for water is quite common there. U.S. is way behind on that point. At least from my perspective observation in central Texas of homes here.
Photovoltaics in reference to sourcing the sun is a good idea. However, initially, its a very expensive investment. If you live in an area that's historically subject to large hail damage, not a good idea.
You should not consider using windmills for a power source unless you live an area that has consistent wind availability. I could see installing a windmill to supplement photovoltaic, as it will most likely be somewhat windy on a cloudy day in most cases.
Some municipalities offer a credit in some form to decrease the initial cost of solar cells and equipment for electrical use.
 Signature Dave
franz fripplfrappl - 06 Jun 2008 21:14 GMT >> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and >> was wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Some municipalities offer a credit in some form to decrease the initial > cost of solar cells and equipment for electrical use. A PBS rerun of E^2 this week was about wind. Comment made was that the US had its chance several decades back when energy was tight. Interest waned and Denmark and Germany became leaders in the technology. Now energy is up again and everyone has shifted into panic mode instead of into how-to-innovate-and-go-forward mode.
 Signature ================================================= Franz Fripplfrappl
Thomas G. Marshall - 06 Jun 2008 22:04 GMT franz fripplfrappl said something like:
...[rip]...
> A PBS rerun of E^2 this week was about wind. Comment made was that > the US had its chance several decades back when energy was tight. > Interest waned and Denmark and Germany became leaders in the > technology. Now energy is up again and everyone has shifted into > panic mode instead of into how-to-innovate-and-go-forward mode. I'm not sure that makes sense. IME "panic mode" provides the *best* impetus needed for innovation.
Any technology formed in another country is of course for sale globally. I don't see why it could possibly matter, unless I missed something.
M Q - 07 Jun 2008 00:10 GMT > I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who > have actually installed them. If you truly want to be green, you need to consider the carbon footprint of manufacturing the photovoltaics. It will take at least several years to just break even, but only if you live in a place with a lot of sun.
Tom Horne - 07 Jun 2008 03:47 GMT > I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who > have actually installed them. At one point in my career I installed photo voltaic systems for a subsidiary of Westinghouse. I'll help with information if I can. If I don't know I'll tell you that.
 Signature Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
Charles - 19 Jun 2008 00:25 GMT > At one point in my career I installed photo voltaic systems for a > subsidiary of Westinghouse. I'll help with information if I can. If I > don't know I'll tell you that. I consulted for Ebara, the spin-off of that Westinghouse division. Just curious as to what your memories are.
Andy Energy - 08 Jun 2008 16:20 GMT On Jun 5, 8:31 am, "Thomas G. Marshall" <tgm2tothe10thpo...@replacetextwithnumber.hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was > wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water > warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills. > > The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who > have actually installed them. So they are both hypocrites: Al tells us to do as he says not as he does and George tells us to do as he says not as he does. So choose your poison. I choose to do my own thing. And that is do as much as I can for the planet and get me off the addiction of OIL. 6 years and no electric ill and my gas bill keeps getting smaller. I do not put pay back at the top of the list of why to do something. It is normally on the bottom. If there was good info on the total effect a product has on our environment it would be at the top.
We did a lot of energy reduction, then production. Now we are doing more reduction soon to do a solar DHW thermal hot water and maybe some solar thermal heating. My goal is to get the gas to zero.
If one wants to look at what is the most cost effective. Reducing the energy consumed is almost always less expensive then producing more. So, do a complete Whole House Performance analysis and do many of those items first before producing more.
Every company will have conflicting information on the performance of their equipment. They all want you to think they have the best. You should be able to find info on the Department of Energy site for estimating the size you need. As for the companies I do not have a good answer for you.
I have a PV (Photovoltaic) system for 8 years now. It has 24-120 watt kyocera panels and a Sunny Boy inverter and faces SW on a 4-12 pitch roof with no shading. It produces about 4,300 kWh’s per year. It has been running now for 6 years.
As for wind look into http://www.bergey.com/ I understand they have a durable unit. As for production your specific site can vary dramatically year to year. One would have to study it for many years at the height of the wind turbine. Not practical. So you have to go by the experience and knowledge of those in your area. I do not recall where but there is a comprehensive US wind map. Your area can vary depending on the micro climate your in.
I hope some of this helps.
Andy
|
|
|