Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsGeneralRural LivingHome AutomationSecurity AlarmsConstructionRepairPlumbingCleaningPest ControlLawn and Garden

Homeowner Forum / Construction / June 2008



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Any experience here with solar panels or windmills?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Thomas G. Marshall - 05 Jun 2008 16:31 GMT
I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.

The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who
have actually installed them.
ransley - 05 Jun 2008 19:40 GMT
On Jun 5, 10:31 am, "Thomas G. Marshall"
<tgm2tothe10thpo...@replacetextwithnumber.hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who
> have actually installed them.

alt.energy.homepower
willshak - 05 Jun 2008 22:27 GMT
on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following:
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who
> have actually installed them.

Al Gore does not have solar panels, or any other energy saving
improvements, installed on his 40,000 sq ft Nashville, Tennessee house.
Since he is the recipient of an Academy Aware for his documentary, "An
Inconvenient Truth", on global warming, I guess they don't work, or it
is just us who haven't a wife that is the heiress of the Heinz fortune
have to make the sacrifices. He uses over 18,000 kwh of electricity a
month and his natural gas bill is over $1000 per month.
George Bush does have energy saving improvements on his house in
Crawford, Texas.
No cites here, just Google it.


Signature

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

h - 05 Jun 2008 22:49 GMT
> on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following:
>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Texas.
> No cites here, just Google it.

Al Gore calls himself an environmentalist, yet he has four (!) kids. Snort.
bill allemann - 06 Jun 2008 16:44 GMT
but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors?

> Al Gore calls himself an environmentalist, yet he has four (!) kids.
> Snort.
Thomas G. Marshall - 06 Jun 2008 22:06 GMT
bill allemann said something like:
> but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors?

{chuckling}

The thing about {still chuckling} that internet comment is that I more or
less understand what I *think* he meant by it, and it's more or less
forgiveable.  But it is without a doubt one of those comments that sticks to
you like JB weld.
Bob F - 07 Jun 2008 03:49 GMT
> bill allemann said something like:
>> but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> But it is without a doubt one of those comments that sticks to you like JB
> weld.

He never said he "invented" the internet. He said he passed laws thet helped
make it happen. The reported claim is pure bunk.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
Thomas G. Marshall - 07 Jun 2008 20:37 GMT
Bob F said something like:
>> bill allemann said something like:
>>> but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

Yes, I'm well aware of what he said.  This statement:

   During my service in the United States
   Congress, I took the initiative in creating
   the Internet.

...s enough to stick.  Note the key components of this:

*I* -- Al Gore
*I took the initiative* -- Al Gore did something on his own that was novel
*creating the internet* -- creating means that there was no internet before,
and then there was.  "Invented" is hardly a far cry from that.

Did this statement float around without context?  Yep.  Did it stand all by
itself as something obnoxious?  No, I'm pretty sure what he meant by it,
given the context of the conversation.  But it is not "pure bunk"-----the
public /misunderstanding/ of this is purely understandable.
tmurf.1@juno.com - 09 Jun 2008 03:28 GMT
On Jun 7, 3:37 pm, "Thomas G. Marshall"
<tgm2tothe10thpo...@replacetextwithnumber.hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bob F said something like:
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

The public misunderstanding is due to right wing lies and spin it was
intentionally twisted to make him look rediculous and then repeated
thousands of times and they are still doing it.
Erma1ina - 08 Jun 2008 01:35 GMT
> > bill allemann said something like:
> >> but didn't Al Gore invent solar collectors?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

Right.

But it took the Republican "slime machine" to obscure the truth and
propagate the lie through an intellectually-lazy bunch of disgruntled
"ditto heads" into the wider culture.

If you want to know what two of the acknowledged "internet wizzards"
(Robert Kahn and Vint Cerf) thought [in 2000] about Al Gore's
contributions to the creation and growth of the internet-as-we-know-it,
check out:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/10/02/net_builders_kahn_cerf_recognise/

Here are some direct quotes:

"Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of
the Internet and to promote and support its development. . . . AS THE
TWO PEOPLE WHO DESIGNED THE BASIC ARCHITECTURE AND THE CORE PROTOCOLS
THAT MAKE THE INTERNET WORK, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's
contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other
elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over
a longer period of time.
[Emphasis added]
. . .
"The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and promoting the
Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it is timely to
offer our perspective.
. . .
"As far back as the 1970s Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high
speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the
improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official
to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader
impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship.
Though easily forgotten now, at the time this was an unproven and
controversial concept. Our work on the Internet started in 1973 and was
based on even earlier work that took place in the mid-late 1960s. But
the Internet, as we know it today, was not deployed until 1983.
. . .
"As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate
what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks
into an "Interagency Network. . . . Gore secured the passage of the High
Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991.  This "Gore Act"
supported the . . . initiative that became one of the major vehicles for
the spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.

"As Vice President Gore promoted building the Internet both up and out,
as well as releasing the Internet from the control of the government
agencies that spawned it.
. . .
". . . No one in public life has been more intellectually engaged in
helping to create the climate for a thriving Internet than the Vice
President."
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 00:54 GMT
>on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following:
>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>Crawford, Texas.
>No cites here, just Google it.

Just for openers, Tipper Gore is NOT the heiress of the Heinz fortune. I'll
leave it to others to decide how much of the rest of your post is accurate.

Just for starters...

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06/al_gore_gets_a.php
Bob F - 06 Jun 2008 03:37 GMT
>>on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following:
>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06/al_gore_gets_a.php

That reference sure shoots down the previous idiots post.
tmurf.1@juno.com - 06 Jun 2008 02:07 GMT
> on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following:
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> In Hamptonburgh, NY
> To email, remove the double zeroes after @

John Kerry is married to Terissa Heinz not Al Gore
Thomas G. Marshall - 06 Jun 2008 03:13 GMT
tmurf.1@juno.com said something like:
>> on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> John Kerry is married to Terissa Heinz not Al Gore

John Kerry is not married to Al Gore?
willshak - 06 Jun 2008 19:08 GMT
on 6/5/2008 9:07 PM tmurf.1@juno.com said the following:
>  
>> on 6/5/2008 11:31 AM Thomas G. Marshall said the following:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> John Kerry is married to Terissa Heinz not Al Gore
>  

Ooops. All those democrats look alike to me. :-)

Signature

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

George - 05 Jun 2008 22:53 GMT
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who
> have actually installed them.

You are working too hard. Just buy "carbon credits" and pat yourself on
the back for being considerate and thoughtful.

Seriously the least expensive way to get a little greener is to look at
your current consumption and see what you can reduce.
Pete C. - 05 Jun 2008 23:12 GMT
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who
> have actually installed them.

alt.energy.homepower is the group with the expertise.
Charles - 05 Jun 2008 23:30 GMT
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people
> who have actually installed them.

I have experience, but not as an installer.  I use solar to heat a swimming
pool and will soon add two more panels to heat hot water for the house.

One must look at a lot of factors.  I did it because I believe that we must
strive to use more renewable energy sources.  I did not do it because it
promised any monetary savings (it was not economically viable in my case).
I think if lots of ordinary folks do what they can, the total impact will be
significant.

As to the other posts about carbon energy credits and Mr. Gore (hypocrite!)
... sigh!
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 00:56 GMT
>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>As to the other posts about carbon energy credits and Mr. Gore (hypocrite!)
>... sigh!

Hypocrite?

http://www.truthandprogress.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=383
hallerb@aol.com - 06 Jun 2008 01:57 GMT
On Jun 5, 7:56�pm, sa...@dog.com wrote:

> >> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> >> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

adding insulation, buying a FUEL EFFICENT VEHICLE, CF lights, these
will no doubt net way larger savings than going solar or wind......

although all have advantages.

wind is location location location, solar needs living where you get
lots of sun.. desert southwest good, pittsburgh why bother.
HeyBub - 06 Jun 2008 02:02 GMT
>> As to the other posts about carbon energy credits and Mr. Gore
>> (hypocrite!) ... sigh!
>
> Hypocrite?

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with hypocrisy. 90% of gynecologists are
male.
George - 06 Jun 2008 02:14 GMT
>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
>>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> http://www.truthandprogress.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=383

Absolutely, he lives in a 10,000 square foot piggy "house" and consumes
20 times the national average of electricity. Putting a couple solar
panels on the roof doesn't mean he isn't a hypocrite.
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 03:09 GMT
>>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
>>>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>20 times the national average of electricity. Putting a couple solar
>panels on the roof doesn't mean he isn't a hypocrite.

Your information was not only wrong when it was first touted, but it's even
further from the truth now.
trader4@optonline.net - 06 Jun 2008 10:14 GMT
On Jun 5, 10:09 pm, sa...@dog.com wrote:
> >sa...@dog.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, Al Gore is a hypocrite.   He's only installed his solar panels
very recently and that was after a year ago, when people publicly
exposed his huge energy bills in his over size mansion.   He'd been
living with a utility bill of $30K a year, $500 a month just to heat
his swimming pool, while running around telling the rest of us we're
destroying the planet.

He still lives in a huge mansion and has at least one other home as
well.   He regularly flies around in private jets.   Yet, his His
movie "An Inconvenient Truth" asks "Are you ready to change the way
you live?"

If that isn't a hypocrite, I don;t know what is.
Bob F - 06 Jun 2008 18:02 GMT
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message news:0933d55e-056d-4e1e-9082-
Yes, Al Gore is a hypocrite.   He's only installed his solar panels
very recently and that was after a year ago, when people publicly
exposed his huge energy bills in his over size mansion.

And he's been fighting the community for the right to install them all that
time.
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 18:23 GMT
><trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message news:0933d55e-056d-4e1e-9082-
>Yes, Al Gore is a hypocrite.   He's only installed his solar panels
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>And he's been fighting the community for the right to install them all that
>time.

I didn't see Trader4's idiotic post because I filter all googlegroup
tyros and spammers. I won't see his reply to this post unless it is
quoted in a reply to him by someone who uses a real usenet server.

Gore installed the solar panels over a year ago, and before that, as
you said, he had a long battle with his community over being allowed
to install them. It was the local right-wing loonies like Trader4 and
George that prevented him from doing it a long time ago. They also
don't seem to understand that his "house" is more a business location
than a residence. That's why it is so big and uses more energy than
trader4's doublewide.
HeyBub - 06 Jun 2008 19:06 GMT
> Gore installed the solar panels over a year ago, and before that, as
> you said, he had a long battle with his community over being allowed
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> than a residence. That's why it is so big and uses more energy than
> trader4's doublewide.

That doesn't sound right. Any community that has zoning regulations that
require permitting for solar panels would certainly have restrictions on
running a business from a home.

I think Gore is growing Marijuana in hydroponic ponds in his "home" and he
wants to go off grid so the authorities don't get suspicious over his high
energy requirements.
Bob F - 06 Jun 2008 22:06 GMT
> I think Gore is growing Marijuana in hydroponic ponds in his "home" and he
> wants to go off grid so the authorities don't get suspicious over his high
> energy requirements.

Which is to say - You don't think.
Thomas G. Marshall - 06 Jun 2008 22:08 GMT
HeyBub said something like:

>> Gore installed the solar panels over a year ago, and before that, as
>> you said, he had a long battle with his community over being allowed
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> and he wants to go off grid so the authorities don't get suspicious
> over his high energy requirements.

Jeepers.  I should have crossposted this to alt.home.repair.crankybastards
:)  Everything I post in these parts seems steeped in gasoline and ignites
from static!
George - 06 Jun 2008 11:36 GMT
>>>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
>>>>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Your information was not only wrong when it was first touted, but it's even
> further from the truth now.

Putting a couple panels on a piggy 10,000 square foot "house" doesn't
change anything. Putting panels on a normal sized efficient house
certainly would. This is algore after all who is telling us what we
should all do. In fact it is no different than a drug addict lecturing
us about the evils of drugs while continuing to push stuff up his nose.
salty@dog.com - 06 Jun 2008 13:38 GMT
>>>>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
>>>>>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>should all do. In fact it is no different than a drug addict lecturing
>us about the evils of drugs while continuing to push stuff up his nose.

His house is actually mostly used for office space, just like any
other 10,000 square foot office building. I'm not talking a spare
bedroom used as a home office. This office has a staff or employees.
And he didn't "just put a couple of panels on the roof", nitwit. In
fact, he would have covered his roof with panels sooner, but local
codes prevented it. The house is also using geo-thermal, and many
other measures to save energy. This work was completed well over a
year ago.

Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head
that would improve your meager brain power.
trader4@optonline.net - 06 Jun 2008 15:05 GMT
On Jun 6, 8:38 am, sa...@dog.com wrote:

> >sa...@dog.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> other measures to save energy. This work was completed well over a
> year ago.

Yes, they started installing it a year ago, right after he was exposed
in the media as a big hypocrite.   Prior to that, his energy bill was
$30K a year.  That;s right $30K/ a year.   He had the time to make the
movie Inconvenient Truth, where he asked "Are you ready to change the
way you live?", but apparently no interest himself that he was using
15 times the energy of a typical home.   BTW, $6K of that was for the
pool.   Does every office building typically have one of those too?

I'd like to see a credible reference for his house being mostly office
space.   Does that meet the zoning?  When he got hammered early last
year, I never heard any such defense offered.

Add to that the guy regularly flies around by private jet, and yes,
you have one big hypocrite!

> Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head
> that would improve your meager brain power.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
trader4@optonline.net - 06 Jun 2008 22:05 GMT
On Jun 6, 10:05 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:38 am, sa...@dog.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm still waiting for the reference to support the claims that:

1 - Al Gore's office TN home of 10,000 square feet is mostly office
space.   I can just see that.  The guy builds a big house and instead
of it being for him to live in, it's an office park for worker
bees.    I don't buy it.

2 - That Al Gore had wanted to use solar for years, but was prevented
from doing it by neighbors, the community, etc.  All the evidence I
have seen doesn't mention any interest, permit applications, etc.   He
only started to get interested in doing something when he was exposed
by the medai, like the below USA piece which does a pretty good job.
Note that he has THREE homes, and nowhere is there any mention of
"office space."

I did find plenty to support that he is an energy hog and hypocrite
thought:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-08-09-gore-green_x.htm

"Public records reveal that as Gore lectures Americans on excessive
consumption, he and his wife Tipper live in two properties: a 10,000-
square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a 4,000-
square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in
Carthage, Tenn.) For someone rallying the planet to pursue a path of
extreme personal sacrifice, Gore requires little from himself.

Then there is the troubling matter of his energy use. In the
Washington, D.C., area, utility companies offer wind energy as an
alternative to traditional energy. In Nashville, similar programs
exist. Utility customers must simply pay a few extra pennies per
kilowatt hour, and they can continue living their carbon-neutral
lifestyles knowing that they are supporting wind energy. Plenty of
businesses and institutions have signed up. Even the Bush
administration is using green energy for some federal office
buildings, as are thousands of area residents.

But according to public records, there is no evidence that Gore has
signed up to use green energy in either of his large residences. When
contacted Wednesday, Gore's office confirmed as much but said the
Gores were looking into making the switch at both homes. Talk about
inconvenient truths. "
tmurf.1@juno.com - 07 Jun 2008 02:47 GMT
On Jun 6, 10:05 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:38 am, sa...@dog.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

so what if he is a hypocrite ?  That is his problem. The fact that he
is correct about global warming is not changed by his personal
behavior.  It is still a good idea to cut back on energy use and do
all the things Al Gore recommends regardless of what he does
personaly.  When ever one of you right wing nuts tries to talk the
first thing you do is change the subject to discredit someone rather
than talking about the facts of the matter.  Learn some new tactics.
Bob F - 07 Jun 2008 03:51 GMT
so what if he is a hypocrite ?  That is his problem. The fact that he
is correct about global warming is not changed by his personal
behavior.  It is still a good idea to cut back on energy use and do
all the things Al Gore recommends regardless of what he does
personaly.  When ever one of you right wing nuts tries to talk the
first thing you do is change the subject to discredit someone rather
than talking about the facts of the matter.  Learn some new tactics.

****************************************************88

Thank would mean dealing with reality. No Thanks.
celticsoc@aol.com - 07 Jun 2008 07:49 GMT
> <tmur...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Thank would mean dealing with reality. No Thanks.

Well, here's why being a hypocrite in this instance is a problem:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/06/04/gore-invests-carbon-credit
-company-will-media-care

tmurf.1@juno.com - 09 Jun 2008 03:25 GMT
On Jun 7, 2:49 am, "celtic...@aol.com" <celtic...@aol.com> wrote:

> > <tmur...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Well, here's why being a hypocrite in this instance is a problem:http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/06/04/gore-invests-ca...

The only thing I get from that extremist artical is the fact that Al
Gore put his money where his mouth is.  He knows it is true and he
believes it is a good investment and he trys to promote it.  Not
Hypocricy as I define it.
ke4fxc_at_knology_dot_net - 07 Jun 2008 11:29 GMT
> On Jun 6, 10:05 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>> On Jun 6, 8:38 am, sa...@dog.com wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> first thing you do is change the subject to discredit someone rather
> than talking about the facts of the matter.  Learn some new tactics.
OK here another one for you all to think about...
Al Gore has a MAJOR Interest in a Carbon Trading Company...
He can buy the credits he needs to stay neutral...
SO if enough people cut back or use a different more green wayof living
and sell there excess credit to the company then HE CAN MAKE MONEY ON
THE TRADE and live like a hypocrite. because other people are saving carbon.
IT's the same thing power company's are doing older power plants pay
a "tax" to pollute and newer cleaner plants sell there credits.

BUT THESE CARBON TRADING COMPANY'S ARE MAKING THE MONEY IN FEES for
there handling the exchange.The government set up the system.
ANOTHER Form of hidden tax that gets passed on down to to the little
person.
People like Al Gore do as they please and sing all the way to the bank.

Charles
HeyBub - 07 Jun 2008 12:11 GMT
> OK here another one for you all to think about...
> Al Gore has a MAJOR Interest in a Carbon Trading Company...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> People like Al Gore do as they please and sing all the way to the
> bank.

Psst: Al Gore owns the carbon trading company.

It's like prostitution: You've got it. You sell it. You've still got it.
George - 07 Jun 2008 12:24 GMT
>>>>>>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
>>>>>>> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head
> that would improve your meager brain power.

Next time you see al ask him about how silly ones position becomes when
you make an Ad Hominem attack.

Out of curiosity what did algore do for you to gain your complete total
love and devotion?
hallerb@aol.com - 07 Jun 2008 13:23 GMT
> sa...@dog.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Al Gore might be obamas VP nominee:)

He could specialize in environmental issues, and brings experience to
the presidency, since he was VP previously
Barney - 07 Jun 2008 15:02 GMT
> Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head
> that would improve your meager brain power.

geez why don't you just go up there and su*k his di*k.
HeyBub - 07 Jun 2008 15:26 GMT
> His house is actually mostly used for office space, just like any
> other 10,000 square foot office building. I'm not talking a spare
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Too bad you couldn't install a couple of "panels" on top of your head
> that would improve your meager brain power.

Yeah, but he keeps flying in his private jet.

Thank goodness there's a new airline for fat-a.ses: Derrie-Air

http://flyderrie-air.com/
franz fripplfrappl - 06 Jun 2008 11:31 GMT
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people
> who have actually installed them.

June 20-22, 2008
Midwest Renewable Energy Fair
Custer, WI (near Stevens Point)

Great event with resources, vendors, presentations and workshops on all
forms of alternative renewable energy.

http://www.the-mrea.org/energy_fair.php

Signature

=================================================
Franz Fripplfrappl

franz fripplfrappl - 06 Jun 2008 11:34 GMT
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people
> who have actually installed them.

Vote Republican.  It's not that they don't care.  They just don't get it.

Signature

=================================================
Franz Fripplfrappl

Dioclese - 06 Jun 2008 13:58 GMT
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people
> who have actually installed them.

Did some R&R in Italy while in the Navy, last time was 2001.  Solar heating
for water is quite common there.  U.S. is way behind on that point.  At
least from my perspective observation in central Texas of homes here.

Photovoltaics in reference to sourcing the sun is a good idea.  However,
initially, its a very expensive investment.  If you live in an area that's
historically subject to large hail damage, not a good idea.

You should not consider using windmills for a power source unless you live
an area that has consistent wind availability.  I could see installing a
windmill to supplement photovoltaic, as it will most likely be somewhat
windy on a cloudy day in most cases.

Some municipalities offer a credit in some form to decrease the initial cost
of solar cells and equipment for electrical use.
Signature

Dave

franz fripplfrappl - 06 Jun 2008 21:14 GMT
>> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and
>> was wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Some municipalities offer a credit in some form to decrease the initial
> cost of solar cells and equipment for electrical use.

A PBS rerun of E^2 this week was about wind.  Comment made was that the
US had its chance several decades back when energy was tight.  Interest
waned and Denmark and Germany became leaders in the technology.  Now
energy is up again and everyone has shifted into panic mode instead of
into how-to-innovate-and-go-forward mode.

Signature

=================================================
Franz Fripplfrappl

Thomas G. Marshall - 06 Jun 2008 22:04 GMT
franz fripplfrappl said something like:

...[rip]...

> A PBS rerun of E^2 this week was about wind.  Comment made was that
> the US had its chance several decades back when energy was tight.
> Interest waned and Denmark and Germany became leaders in the
> technology.  Now energy is up again and everyone has shifted into
> panic mode instead of into how-to-innovate-and-go-forward mode.

I'm not sure that makes sense.  IME "panic mode" provides the *best* impetus
needed for innovation.

Any technology formed in another country is of course for sale globally.  I
don't see why it could possibly matter, unless I missed something.
M Q - 07 Jun 2008 00:10 GMT
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who
> have actually installed them.

If you truly want to be green, you need to consider the carbon footprint
of manufacturing the photovoltaics.  It will take at least several years
to just break even, but only if you live in a place with a lot
of sun.
Tom Horne - 07 Jun 2008 03:47 GMT
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who
> have actually installed them.

At one point in my career I installed photo voltaic systems for a
subsidiary of Westinghouse.  I'll help with information if I can.  If I
don't know I'll tell you that.
Signature

Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad.  It is much too dangerous
for general use."  Thomas Alva Edison

Charles - 19 Jun 2008 00:25 GMT
> At one point in my career I installed photo voltaic systems for a
> subsidiary of Westinghouse.  I'll help with information if I can.  If I
> don't know I'll tell you that.

I consulted for Ebara, the spin-off of that Westinghouse division.  Just
curious as to what your memories are.
Andy Energy - 08 Jun 2008 16:20 GMT
On Jun 5, 8:31 am, "Thomas G. Marshall"
<tgm2tothe10thpo...@replacetextwithnumber.hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've been interested in potentially going a smidgeon more green, and was
> wondering if anyone here has any experience with solar panels (water
> warming, or even photo voltaic), and/or windmills.
>
> The research online does not compare to useful observations from people who
> have actually installed them.

So they are both hypocrites:  Al tells us to do as he says not as he
does and George tells us to do as he says not as he does.  So choose
your poison.  I choose to do my own thing.  And that is do as much as
I can for the planet and get me off the addiction of OIL.  6 years and
no electric ill and my gas bill keeps getting smaller.  I do not put
pay back at the top of the list of why to do something.  It is
normally on the bottom.  If there was good info on the total effect a
product has on our environment it would be at the top.

We did a lot of energy reduction, then production.  Now we are doing
more reduction soon to do a solar DHW thermal hot water and maybe some
solar thermal heating.  My goal is to get the gas to zero.

If one wants to look at what is the most cost effective.  Reducing the
energy consumed is almost always less expensive then producing more.
So, do a complete Whole House Performance analysis and do many of
those items first before producing more.

Every company will have conflicting information on the performance of
their equipment.  They all want you to think they have the best.  You
should be able to find info on the Department of Energy site for
estimating the size you need.  As for the companies I do not have a
good answer for you.

I have a PV (Photovoltaic) system for 8 years now.  It has 24-120 watt
kyocera panels and a Sunny Boy inverter and faces SW on a 4-12 pitch
roof with no shading.  It produces about 4,300 kWh’s per year.  It has
been running now for 6 years.

As for wind look into http://www.bergey.com/ I understand they have a
durable unit.  As for production your specific site can vary
dramatically year to year.  One would have to study it for many years
at the height of the wind turbine.  Not practical.  So you have to go
by the experience and knowledge of those in your area.  I do not
recall where but there is a comprehensive US wind map.  Your area can
vary depending on the micro climate your in.

I hope some of this helps.

Andy
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.