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Homeowner Forum / Construction / April 2007What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows?
What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? With the standard 3 foot three tab shingles what is the best order of courses to stager the joints? After the starter course I use a full three tab shingles. Then cut 6 inches off the end tab of the next course. At this point is where I am not sure what to do. Do I cut a full tab off for the number three course? And use a two full tab section. Then go to a cut down t 6 inch and a full tab for number 4 course. And then repeat? At course five to 8 and so on? > What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and a full tab for number 4 course. And then repeat? At course five to > 8 and so on? I have seen where they cut 6" off and I have also seen where they cut 8" and then the next row 4". I think its up to you how you want it to look. I am sure that you will get more replies on this subject. > I have seen where they cut 6" off and I have also seen where they cut > 8" and then the next row 4". That's the approach I use. Start with a full shingle, cut off 4" on the next row, cut off 8" on the next row, then start over with a full shingle on the next row. This gives a slightly less formal "rustic" appearance, but more importantly, it's better at hiding slight alignment errors between rows (vertical joints only line up every 3 rows instead of every other row). Anthony >> I have seen where they cut 6" off and I have also seen where they cut >> 8" and then the next row 4". [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Anthony I always measure the entire roof first, just make sure you wont end up with a little sliver of a tab on the other end. other than that, 1/2 tab/ full tab... repeat > What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and a full tab for number 4 course. And then repeat? At course five to > 8 and so on? Instructions for layout for shingles are printed on the plastic wrap they come in. Doing something else voids the warranty.  SignatureDave Apathy and denial are close cousins >> What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Instructions for layout for shingles are printed on the plastic wrap they > come in. Doing something else voids the warranty. The warranty is completely worthless anyway. Ever see an application where every nail hit the tar strip? won't happen with nail guns & roofers knocking out 10 square a day. > >> What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > every nail hit the tar strip? won't happen with nail guns & roofers knocking > out 10 square a day. nails aren't supposed to hit the tar strip anyway. The tar strip is for sealing the tabs above to the shingle below. I actually got spanked once for having nails in the tar strip. But your point is right. the warranty is worthless. Unless it's some sort of a class action for a defective batch of shingles, shingle companies just blame the installer. >>> What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > every nail hit the tar strip? won't happen with nail guns & roofers knocking > out 10 square a day. I hope the nails don't hit the tar strip as that isn't proper technique. Matt >>> What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > every nail hit the tar strip? won't happen with nail guns & roofers > knocking out 10 square a day. And your assessment of the warranty be worthless is based on what? Roofers generally ignore the instructions on the shingle package anyway. They go straight up the roof (no pyramid), then work left and right. At least the faster roofing subs do. Yes, the warranty is void here. Has nothing to do with one individual laying shingles on his own roof. SignatureDave Apathy and denial are close cousins > >>> What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Apathy and denial are close cousins The warranty covers material defects. That's it. (Unless you purchase the "Golden Pledge" coverage from GAF.) So I guess it's not worthless--those shingles might be defective, and you might get to join one of those class actions that you see advertised. But if you think that if you follow every instruction on a shingle package and if your roof leaks, the shingle manufacturer is going to come and make it right, you're dreaming. >> >>> What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > your roof leaks, the shingle manufacturer is going to come and make it > right, you're dreaming. Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached garage I built. Every detail followed. Wasn't that difficult, or time-consuming. Why a class action suit on a warranty defect? Mountain out of mole-hill. Sounds like hearsay and suppostion to me. SignatureDave Apathy and denial are close cousins On Ap > Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached garage I > built. Every detail followed. Wasn't that difficult, or time-consuming. So you've done one roof and have decided that you know better than most roofers? Roofers run shingles straight up because it is faster, and time is money in construction. > Why a class action suit on a warranty defect? Mountain out of mole-hill. > Sounds like hearsay and suppostion to me. Believe what you want. When I hear of just ONE roof repaired by the manufacturer, I'll consider changing my mind. > On Ap >> Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached garage I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > most roofers? Roofers run shingles straight up because it is faster, > and time is money in construction. If they run them straight up, then all of the shingle seams will be exactly aligned and the roof will leak like a sieve. Matt > > On Ap > >> Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached garage I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Matt course you realize they alternate 6" back and forth. >>> On Ap >>>> Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached garage I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > course you realize they alternate 6" back and forth. Well, that isn't "straight", but doing this requires you to slide shingles between two other shingles for the next "straight up" column and that certainly can't be fast and risks damaging the shingle. Matt "If they run them straight up, then all of the shingle seams will be >>> exactly aligned and the roof will leak like a sieve. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Matt Grasshopper ...... there is much to learn kickstart > >>> On Ap > >>>> Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached garage I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Matt try it, you'll like it. >>>>> On Ap >>>>>> Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached garage I [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > try it, you'll like it. No, I like doing things right. > >>>>> On Ap > >>>>>> Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached garage I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > No, I like doing things right. And why would your way be better? Please explain your reasoning. Don't give me the line about it being on the shingle wrapper, because Owen Corning's instructions show "vertical racking" as the proper method, (Perhaps they are a bit more up on the way the vast majority of roofs are laid down in this country) In fact, they recommend against running shingles across and diagonally. http://www.owenscorning.com/around/roofing/pdfs/Berkshire_Install.pdf >> >>>>> On Ap >>>>>>>> Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >against running shingles across and diagonally. >http://www.owenscorning.com/around/roofing/pdfs/Berkshire_Install.pdf Well, I read those directions and it does say to NOT run the shingles across and diagonally up but there are no reasons given. Can anyone give me a reason why those shingles should not be run across? Mike >>And why would your way be better? Please explain your reasoning. >>Don't give me the line about it being on the shingle wrapper, because [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > diagonally up but there are no reasons given. Can anyone give me a reason why > those shingles should not be run across? GAF says: "DO NOT lay shingles straight up the roof since this procedure can cause an incorrect color blend on the roof and may damage the shingles." http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/20222.pdf SignatureWarren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA >>>And why would your way be better? Please explain your reasoning. >>>Don't give me the line about it being on the shingle wrapper, because [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/20222.pdf That's the way I've always done them. Does anyone know why Owens Corning insists on NOT using this method with their Berkshire shingles? Mike >>>> And why would your way be better? Please explain your reasoning. >>>> Don't give me the line about it being on the shingle wrapper, because [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > That's the way I've always done them. Does anyone know why Owens Corning > insists on NOT using this method with their Berkshire shingles? I would guess it has something to do with the pattern of the shingles, but I've not seen Berkshire shingles up close so that is only a guess. Matt >>>>> And why would your way be better? Please explain your reasoning. >>>>> Don't give me the line about it being on the shingle wrapper, because [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Matt So, you think it has something to do with the cosmetic appearance of the shingles rather than it's intended purpose, which is to keep water from leaking through them? Mike >>>>>> And why would your way be better? Please explain your reasoning. >>>>>> Don't give me the line about it being on the shingle wrapper, because [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > shingles rather than it's intended purpose, which is to keep water from leaking > through them? That is my best guess. It would be interesting to see the reason from O-C though. Matt >>>>>>>> On Ap >>>>>>>>> Guess I dreamed the composition shingle application on the detached [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > diagonally up but there are no reasons given. Can anyone give me a reason why > those shingles should not be run across? I don't know, but if I was installing these shingles I'd follow the directions given. Shingles I've installed in the past recommended having the edges staggered diagonally up the roof. I can't for the life of me see how this is easier when you have to leave out the fastener on the end and then interleave every other shingle on the next column. I'd rather work horizontally and diagonally where I can fully nail every shingle as I go and just lay them down and not have to pick up the loose end of another shingle to slip a shingle underneath it. Matt > > In article <1177586682.467927.134...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, marson > > says... [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Matt Matt, I'm not sure how else to say this. In my younger days, I did some roofs your way. Run em' accross and diagonally up. Then one day I did a roof with someone who showed my how to run em up the roof. It was like a revelation. This was obviously much faster, even if you have to pick up the corner of every other shingle. Never went back to the old way. Way outweighs the time it takes to scamper back and forth. Every single roofer I know runs em straight up the roof. >>> In article <1177586682.467927.134...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, marson >>> says... [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > the old way. Way outweighs the time it takes to scamper back and > forth. Every single roofer I know runs em straight up the roof. I don't doubt that. The roofers I know and the ones that installed my roof didn't do that. I also know a lot of plumbers who will notch 3" out of the bottom of the center third of a floor joist as well. That doesn't make it right. Matt Marson , your talking to a f.cking idiot, let it go !!! Kickstart >>>> What is the layout order of starting three tab shingles rows? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > least the faster roofing subs do. Yes, the warranty is void here. Has > nothing to do with one individual laying shingles on his own roof. I've never seen a roofer do that, but then I tend to hire good roofers, not fast roofers. You get what you pay for... Matt to do with one individual laying shingles on his own roof. > I've never seen a roofer do that, but then I tend to hire good roofers, > not fast roofers. You get what you pay for... > > Matt Wow !! Don't get out much huh ? kickstart > to do with one individual laying shingles on his own roof. >> I've never seen a roofer do that, but then I tend to hire good roofers, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Wow !! > Don't get out much huh ? Apparently not in shabby roofer land. Let me guess, you live in FL or TX, right? Matt > > to do with one individual laying shingles on his own roof. > >> I've never seen a roofer do that, but then I tend to hire good roofers, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Matt Where do you live Matt? I've never seen a roofer, high end or low end, do anything but run 'em straight up either, and I live in northern Minnesota, where construction prices are through the roof, so to speak. >>> to do with one individual laying shingles on his own roof. >>>> I've never seen a roofer do that, but then I tend to hire good roofers, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > northern Minnesota, where construction prices are through the roof, so > to speak. Northcentral PA. Matt >> Wow !! >> Don't get out much huh ? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Matt Florida , where roofers have to roof. Shingles last 10-15 years And have to keep lots of rain out. We have roofers from all over come to Florida to show us how "they" do it. I make a good living fixing their leaks. Glad your too smart to be here kickstart- the shabby roofer |
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