Homeowner Forum / Construction / December 2006

"using 3m blue tape"

Hey, you have demonstrated that it works in your location. What can we
possibly add absent such personal experience.

Assume new installation is also at or above grade as well (below grade
installs over concrete are the iffy installations).

Not sure 3M Blue Masking tape would be my choice for the vapor barrier as
opposed to the tape sold for use with Tyvex House Wrap or similar.

I'm wrestling with a below-grade concrete basement floor I want to serve as
my workshop and would love it if your approach mightwork. But the moisture
would create MOLD big time if the wood pulled off the one basement wall is
any indication.

From what I've found, there's little one can do with a below-grade cement
basement floor and medical advice is "don't spend time standing on
concrete!"

Catcha-22

<lefebvre@iwavesolutions.com> wrote in message

For most builders (at least in this area), perhaps. Mainly because it is a
departure from a method that _has_ stood the test of time, and one with well
known and relatively easy/cost effective solutions to problems that may
arise in the future for both the builder and homeowner.

For you, that does not mean that it won't work, but that only time will
tell.

Why not consider a floating floor product i.e. engineered wood floor?  The
finishes available are durable (probably more durable than finish in place
floors) and the seams can be tight and near invisible. And it goes in very
fast.  Use a good quality underlay.

...

That's _ONE_ year for a flooring material that can last 200 or more --
not a very long time yet.

What I see as potential issues --

1.  The tongue and groove of strip flooring aren't made to fit to a
close tolerance for a glue joint.  You don't mention what you used as
the glue, but I would be quite surprised if you can find a way that
these joints will last for a long period of time w/o eventually failing
at the joint.  Remember, this is potentially a multiple-lifetime
flooring material and you've seen the results of your experiment for
only _one_ year so far.

2.  For a large floor, you don't have any way to prevent movement
between boards over time other than the above glue joint -- rarely (as
in never) have I seen strip flooring which didn't need at least some
persuasion when initially being laid to close the joints and for a
large area I think you'll run into problems of a very high
rejection/wastage rate if you require every piece to be absolutely true
its entire length in order to pull joints tight during the
installation.  The supplier will not think these pieces out of spec as
they would work fine w/ recommended installation techniques so this
will raise cost.

3.  You don't say, but I'm assuming you didn't finish four sides (top,
bottom, two ends -- sides obviously can't be if gluing).  Thus, as w/ a
convential strip floor, you still have three of the four sides
available for moisture movement.  Over one year, maybe you got by, over
a long-haul I don't expect you to be so lucky.  Finishing the
bottom/ends might help a little, but finishes don't stop moisture,
transfer, they slow it down.

Overall, I think you're risking a pretty sizable investment on an
unproven method of installation when proven methods are available.  If
it were something that would be relatively easy to fix later, I'd say
"sure, give it a shot", but once this is down in an entire house, _if_
it does fail, you've got a real mess on your hands plus quite an
expense.  I'm w/ the other poster who suggested if you want a floating
floor, buy a product designed to be installed that way.

It's your house and your money, but I'm not that kind of a risk-taker.

IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc., etc., etc., ... :)

If high and/or stable humidity is a year round thing in Hawaii floating
shouldn't be needed as things would tend to stay constant (wet) and thus
stay put. Letting the flooring acclimate in the house and then installing it
would suffice. It's the seasonal variations and/or not letting the flooring
acclimate that tend to cause problems.

What about termites though?

DRIcore subflooring would be an option. Termites may not like this stuff at
all due to all of the adhesives and plastics. It might be worth checking
that out. http://www.dricore.com/en/eindex.htm

Another option, again with the termites in mind, would be PT sleepers to
flatten and PT ply subfloor, vapor/squeak barrier and then nail down your
wood finish floor. If the concrete is relatively flat PT plywood glued down
may work just fine however you may need two layers to deal with the
nail/staple penetration.

I'd be concerned with the termites if untreated wood were basically in
contact with concrete. They'd likely find it sooner or later.

John

Follow the manufacturer's instruction.  If not,  a warranty is
immediately voided. You pay premium in HI for products now.

Adhesives, as I understand now have moisture barrier quialities.

Prepare the floor, get a good adhesive and put the floor down.
Floating in your test room may not have the same end result in the new
room.

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

Yes.  The OP installed the hardwood flooring in his house.  Mike Holmes put
it in a kitchen.  After re-reading my post, I omitted where in the house the
issue was.  My apologies.