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Homeowner Forum / Construction / November 2006breezeway collar ties part 2?
should I bother with collar ties in this breezeway? It is only 8x10 and the cathedral ceilings will be done in vee match pine. http://www.geocities.com/guitarage41/DCP_8537.JPG http://www.geocities.com/guitarage41/DCP_8539.JPG > should I bother with collar ties in this breezeway? It is only 8x10 and the > cathedral ceilings will be done in vee match pine. > > http://www.geocities.com/guitarage41/DCP_8537.JPG > > http://www.geocities.com/guitarage41/DCP_8539.JPG I don't think there is anyone here who is going to tell you that what you have will work. it MIGHT work, being only 8 x 10, but it might not. you haven't told us about snow load in your area, but judging from the species of trees in your photos, you have some snow. if it were mine, i would install a ridge beam. then the fact that your rafters are not installed as opposing pairs becomes a non issue. why not do it right the first time instead of worrying about it later? it isn't too late. you can butt one under your ridge board, so that it is carried by the beam. (you should joist hangar your rafters to the ridge board). you will have to header off the openings on either end, and install a post below either end of your beam down to the header. given that the framing is all exposed, and the small loads involved, this should be no big deal. What I like is the detail highlighted in red http://i11.tinypic.com/473uotj.jpg You used 2 different sizes for your rafters? and you used beadboard not plywood so you were expecting to have that area exposed? I dont know how you are going to handel that area maybe you can string a line up to the ridge and get a electric hand planer heh sorry i dont mean to pick your work apart : ) you better just put a ceiling in there and hide it http://i14.tinypic.com/2lc7am0.jpg Maybe that will give you a better idea of what I was talking about either drywall or beadboard and insert some 1" foam board insulation behind the drywall but keep it next to the drywall so air can get up there and you are going to have to trim those rafters on the right side either that or rebuild the roof > should I bother with collar ties in this breezeway? It is only 8x10 and > the cathedral ceilings will be done in vee match pine. > > http://www.geocities.com/guitarage41/DCP_8537.JPG > > http://www.geocities.com/guitarage41/DCP_8539.JPG you don't need collar ties there Hey man pretty good picture modifications.... what program did you use to do that with?.... I am going to cover the area with mor match pine but over the rafters of course. The vents are in place for cathedral... I just was wondering if I really needed to have any collar ties. As fo the roof sheathing.... that is how the kit came and was designed. Part of it is for the overhangs matching the log siding.... I was wondering the same thing when we put it together .... but that is what Maine Cedar Log Homes does. The pine is cheaper and tighter. I also/they used 3"x6" wall studding.... it is very rugged... but the breezeway was kind of a difficult decision as to what to do. That is where I had to blend the 16 oc and the 24 oc. I thought it was pretty slick at the time. But after reading about snow load and collar ties I became concerned. Same old me... shoot first ask questions later. > What I like is the detail highlighted in red > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> >> http://www.geocities.com/guitarage41/DCP_8539.JPG Aren't we making a mountain out of a mole hill? Just the sheathing would keep the walls from spreading and if the walls can't spread, nothing is going to go down. It's not much bigger than a dog house for gosh sakes. That's not saying with the weird spacing it will ever look good. I would probably panel the bottom to hide it. > Hey man pretty good picture modifications.... what program did > you use to do that with?.... [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/guitarage41/DCP_8539.JPG In a previous post Glenn wrote... > Aren't we making a mountain out of a mole hill? Just the > sheathing would keep the walls from spreading and if the walls > can't spread, nothing is going to go down. It's not much bigger > than a dog house for gosh sakes. That's not saying with the weird > spacing it will ever look good. I would probably panel the bottom > to hide it. Sheathing will NOT keep the wall from spreading.  SignatureBob Morrison, PE, SE R L Morrison Engineering Co Structural & Civil Engineering Poulsbo WA bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com > In a previous post Glenn wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Sheathing will NOT keep the wall from spreading. Yes, that was a pretty funny comment, were it not so potentially dangerous. Matt > > In a previous post Glenn wrote... > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Matt it's especially funny when you realize the roof isn't even sheathed with plywood! anyone who can look at a picture from 1000 miles away and state unequivically that this doesn't need a structural ridge or collar ties is blowing smoke. true, it's small, and it may be fine. but it may not. how are the rafters tied to the plates? how are the breezeway walls tied to the main structure walls? no offense to the OP, but it doesn't look like it was framed with a high degree of professionalism. further, it'll probably be fine this winter. but what about 10 winters from now, or 20 winters? Do you really want to look at a swayback ridge when you are a old man and think, well, if I had just spent another hundred bucks and an extra half day on it.... in my youth, i was guilty of slapping a few things together that I lived to regret. not a good feeling. do it right and feel good about it, I say. > anyone who can look at a picture from 1000 miles away and state > unequivically that this doesn't need a structural ridge or collar ties [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > was guilty of slapping a few things together that I lived to regret. > not a good feeling. do it right and feel good about it, I say. I am not an engineer. Assuming that you used proper nailing techniques for the correct size lumber... I would bet my left nut that this little breezeway does not need collar ties. > > anyone who can look at a picture from 1000 miles away and state > > unequivically that this doesn't need a structural ridge or collar ties [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the correct size lumber... I would bet my left nut that this little > breezeway does not need collar ties. You're basing your recommendation on guesses and assumptions. That's not a good way to engineer a structure. It's unlikely that there would be a catastrophic failure. Most likely there would be movement over time. Movement over time in a structure is a definition of failure. Is there any reason why the OP should settle for sagging in his brand new breezeway? Considering that the solution would probably cost a couple of twenties and a couple of hours, if the guy took a break in the middle, why shouldn't he do it? R > Hey man pretty good picture modifications.... what program did you use to do > that with?.... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > at the time. But after reading about snow load and collar ties I became > concerned. Same old me... shoot first ask questions later. Tying the plates together with rod or cable will be the easiest solution. A true cathedral ceiling will just be an open space with all interest on the surface. The cable/rod will add interest inside the space. If you do something interesting with it, say use some rebar with welded plates for the bolted connections at each end and paint it, it will be an architectural detail. You know the stuff you'd pay big bucks for someone to design for you. ;) R o i used photoshop sometimes pictures can help especialy me, I know i use different words for things then other people so i can confuse people pretty fast : ) but anyway that detail where the rafter meets the top plate of the wall thats gonna be a drag installing pine board there so really get a decent jigsaw and a couple nice blades and string a line and cut them back so you have a straight line and not that notch if they were 24oc i would be more concerned on the trimming but they are 16 and should be able to take a trim thats my opinion I am not an engineer : ) > Hey man pretty good picture modifications.... what program did you use to > do that with?.... [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/guitarage41/DCP_8539.JPG |
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