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Homeowner Forum / Construction / October 2006Residential service entrance power drop repair?
The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop broke a few strands, and the strain relief / insulator for the ground / neutral cable is broken. I'm going to do this myself. I called the power company to ask about how the disconnect/reconnect happens during the repair. The guy tried to answer my question but ultimately didn't. I want to replace the broken items and the conductors that go to the load panel. I want to keep the load panel, old as it is, and all other salvageable components because in the spring the house is going to be bulldozed to make way for a new home, and it's not worth it to replace it. The power guy said that power isn't turned off, per se, but that it is disconnected from the old conductors and connected to the new ones by the power company crew. I said that I didn't understand how this could be the case if I want to replace the conductors in the conduit, but we couldn't seem to get to where he understood what I was asking. How is power disconnect / reconnect handled if one is replacing the conductors, and not installing a new load panel / conduit, etc. From my phone call experience, it seems like the power company hardly comes across a repair question such as this. This is in Maryland. Thanks,  SignatureJohn English You're messing with something you shouldn't be touching. I built and remodeled for 45 years and did my own wiring on all the residential encluding running a 400A service into a couple houses. Still, I wouldn't touch this. It needs to be pig tailed and *dead* when you mess with something like this. (They say when a person gets fried like that it really stinks. Don't prove it.) > The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance > conduit extending from the roof by a fallen branch. The [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > -- > John English > The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from > the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > This is in Maryland. You might want to run this question by your local building/electrical inspector. The work you do on your residence will have to pass inspection. Some power companies* will not reconnect until the inspection is completed successfully, but beyond that, they aren't concerned with the repairs done to your equipment. The inspector will tell you what upgrades will be required to meet current code. *In many cases, the power company and inspection authority are separate. There are a few (municipal) utilities where these may be combined, but it doesn't seem so from your description above. SignaturePaul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail. -- Gore Vidal > The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from > the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Thanks, I recently replaced the meter panel and service entrance cable on my house. The electric co required an inspection of the meter panel install and wiring to the existing line from the street. The inspector notified the electric co (PECO) and an appointment was made for the change over. The change is made while the wires are hot, nothing is shut off. I believe an electrician can do the repair also. I'm a licensed electrician. Call a professional to do this repair. When dealing with a service entrance, there is not a disconnect to protect you. I have repaired problems like yours and the only way I would do it, would be to have the electric company kill the power at the transformer. I have disconnected the feed lines hot before, but it's dangerous and not a good idea for a damaged service or if your not a skilled professional who has experience. >The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from >the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Thanks, > The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from > the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > case if I want to replace the conductors in the conduit, but we couldn't seem > to get to where he understood what I was asking. As an electrician I would disconnect the power company's overhead conductors from the conductors running down the side of the house while they are HOT. I would replace and fix everything necessary from the point of attachment on the house down to the main panel. I would then reconnect the overhead conductors to the conductors on the house while they are HOT. Depending on the power company here in NJ they would either do nothing or come out to inspect and then send their own crew to reconnect to their own standards. It is rare that the overhead conductors would ever be disconnected at the transformer so that they would be dead when being connected to the service conductors running down the house. > How is power disconnect / reconnect handled if one is replacing the > conductors, and not installing a new load panel / conduit, etc. From my phone > call experience, it seems like the power company hardly comes across a repair > question such as this. That is because this work is usually done by a qualified professional. > This is in Maryland. > > Thanks, Yeah, but is the guy who ask the question a qualified and experienced electrician? You and I might work this HOT!!, but he probably doesn't need too. >> The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from >> the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >> Thanks, >> The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from >> the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> >> Thanks, It seems like it would be easier to take a high powered rifle, blow a hole in the transformer and before the electric company replaces the transformer, fix your wires without any power going to them. If you peneterate the transformer core windings with your shot, you will get quite an exciting fireworks display. Dont forget to tell them about the kid that you almost caught when he was shooting in the alley. The power company owns all until it hits the meter. You're messing with fire, wasting your time. I have seen setups where a meter at the pole is prior to a weatherhead in mobile home setup. Or, in a rural area where the meter is on the pole and the weatherhead is at the house. Residential areas have the weatherhead prior to the meter. But, this seems to be avoided information by your post. SignatureJonny > The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from > the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Thanks, This is a matter for the truck and hard hat crowd. Describe it to them completely and have a power co. employee look at it. If they say it's a contractor's deal, hire a contractor. The line that goes to your feed point is a higher voltage IIRC than comes from the distribution/meter box end to be used (I think by a factor of about 4x). Paint, siding, windows and haggling points. Electricity isn't. > The power company owns all until it hits the meter. You're messing with > fire, wasting your time. The demarcation point between the utilities wires and the premise wiring is not always the meter enclosure. That point is established by the states Public Service Commission, Peoples Council, Public Utilities Commission or a similar body. In many places the demarcation point for an overhead residential service is the splices between the drop and the service entry conductors. All repairs needed on the customers side of the demarcation point is done by the customer or her/his agent. SignatureTom Horne Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you. >> The power company owns all until it hits the meter. You're messing with >> fire, wasting your time. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > service entry conductors. All repairs needed on the customers side of the > demarcation point is done by the customer or her/his agent. Agreed. But, not true for all areas of the U.S, states, counties/villages/municipalites, electrical companies and coops. See "But, this seems to be avoided information by your post." which you deleted in your reply. You, nor I, don't know what applies in reference to this individual case. SignatureJonny >>> The power company owns all until it hits the meter. You're messing with >>> fire, wasting your time. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > your reply. You, nor I, don't know what applies in reference to this > individual case. Try again. There is nothing in my post that is untrue. If your saying the demarcation point varies from place to place I already said that. In all areas of the US the demarcation point is set by whichever regulatory agency sets that state's utility tariffs. SignatureTom Horne "This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison >The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from >the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >disconnect/reconnect happens during the repair. The guy tried to answer my >question but ultimately didn't. I installed a new, taller mast and meter base a few feet over from my old one. The power company came by in the morning and unhooked me, they work HOT. I swapped the new setup into the main panel and got the city electrical inspector to check it and tagged it "OK to reconnect". Then the power company came back and rewired it. You need to have everything scheduled with the inspector and power crew. They *will not* hook back up without the tag from the inspector, at least in my community. -- Dennis around here, the service drop on the side of the house belongs to the homeowner. if the building is scheduled for demolition, have the power company take a look and decide if its a hazard, perhaps you can do nothing? the conduit is likey rusty inside so new wire may not be successfully pulled thru it DT: > I installed a new, taller mast and meter base a few feet over from my old > one. The power company came by in the morning and unhooked me, they work HOT. > I swapped the new setup into the main panel and got the city electrical > inspector to check it and tagged it "OK to reconnect". Then the power company > came back and rewired it. > > You need to have everything scheduled with the inspector and power crew. They > *will not* hook back up without the tag from the inspector, at least in my > community. Thank you for your reply. It seems that the answer to my question that the power util guy didn't give is that they will disconnect HOT and reconnect HOT after I've installed the new wire and hardware and gotten the inspection done. I misstated: the conductors go from the weatherhead to the meter base, mounted on the wall below the eaves of the roof. To the "moms" that replied: don't worry, the work is well within my skill set (I do electrical repair of large 3-phase machines such as printing presses) and do not want to touch any hot lines. Thanks to all, SignatureJohn English > To the "moms" that replied: don't worry, the work is well within my skill > set > (I do electrical repair of large 3-phase machines such as printing > presses) > and do not want to touch any hot lines. Then you can work hot if you clearly understand the safety rules and have the proper equipment. Thus spake Homer J Simpson: > Then you can work hot if you clearly understand the safety rules and have the > proper equipment. Thanks for your input. My comfort / safety zone is to not work with anything hot. The closest I come is pulling wires to a load panel that is live, but I won't work on hot conductors. If the power company won't disconnect and reconnect the power drop (within a reasonable period, say 24 hours), I may have to have an electrician do this. But the one estimate I got was $3000 for that small job. Thanks again, SignatureJohn English > If the power company won't disconnect and reconnect the power drop (within a > reasonable period, say 24 hours), I may have to have an electrician do this. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > John English around here the power company charges 400 bucks to disconnect and reconnect. you might consider just putting up a new drop along side the old powered one, new meter can then pull mewter and finish connections then have inspected and just ONE trip for power company. plus you will have power while working. DO CHECK IN ADVANCE WITH THE INSPECTOR SO YOU KNOW IF THEY WILL DEMAND UPGRADING TO NEW GROUNDS AND ALL NEW EQUIPTEMENT they may not approve reuse of old conduit etc etc...... if house burns down and people die their reputation and job is on the line..... > My comfort / safety zone is to not work with anything hot. The closest I > come > is pulling wires to a load panel that is live, but I won't work on hot > conductors. Well, it is doable. But live line work requires careful study of the situation first. Electrician's Motto: "One flash and you're ash"! >Thus spake Homer J Simpson: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Thanks again, I'll do it for $2999.99 if you supply the beer. In alt.engineering.electrical Homer J Simpson <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: | Then you can work hot if you clearly understand the safety rules and have | the proper equipment. Working hot on 120/240 is certainly not within my comfort zone. Yet I would feel entirely comfortable having up to 600 volts coming into my home and dropping it down to 120/240 with my own transformer, and using it direct on some big appliances if they made versions for such voltage as long as I had a separate main isolation disconnect for it. But I admit I did replace a receptacle hot once. But that was when I was stupid (i.e. in college). And I didn't even let any of the bright blue pixies pop loose. |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2006-10-25-1755@ipal.net | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------| >But I admit I did replace a receptacle hot once. But that was when I >was stupid (i.e. in college). And I didn't even let any of the bright >blue pixies pop loose. WOW........ I am highly impressed. You even lived (I think). What substance(s) were you abusing at the time? Please choose ALL that apply (below) 1. Beer 2. Hard Liquer in shot glasses 3. Mixed drinks 4. Other Alcoholic drinks 5. Marijuana 6. Cocaine 7. Crack 8. Meth 9. Heroin 10. LSD 11. Mescaline 12. Speed --. (unused number - This number is bad luck) 14. Valium 15. Hashish 16. Injectable Drano 17. Smoking Electrical Banana peels 18. Barbituates 19. Blood Pressure Meds 20. Caffein 21. Nicotine 22. Pain Killers 22. Other Prescription Drugs 23. Other Illegal Drugs > DT: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Thanks to all, Please don't reply with important information regarding the question itself if you found the solution. Its insulting. SignatureJonny >The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from >the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >disconnect/reconnect happens during the repair. The guy tried to answer my >question but ultimately didn't. I would want to search more. Normally here, the electrician connects up the main wires, live, I guess, or at least thats how the guy installed a new service at my old home. Disconnectiong the meter does nothing for the stuff in front of the meter. If you dn't do this for a living, I would stay away. By the way, a new service cost me about $1000. greg >> The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from >> the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > greg I put in a new service entrance this past summer. The town/inspector let me pull the permit to do the panel but I had to get an electrician to do the outside work. He did the new meter box, weather head, and entrance cable. He also did the cut over. He did it live, one conductor at a time. The power company was notified but didn't do an inspection or anything else. In fact the seal on the meter where we swapped it from old box to new is still cut. Here in MA they're fairly lame. So yes the cut over is done live. But who does what when is a very local situation between the town/inspector, power company and home owner. I'd start with your local inspector but if you're in the trades you should know that. > The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from > the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > This is in Maryland. I'd recommend against it. In most jurisdictions, the power company 'owns' the weatherhead and drop to the meter, you own from the meter box on. You can work on your side easy enough by having the power company come pull the meter. But in most areas, they won't re-install until the work is inspected and tagged. So you have to have your 'ducks in a row', ready to go. In NY, if it was buried service, the power company is only responsible to the transformer vault. You're responsible for maintaining the underground feed from the vault to the meter. In most areas, the power company is responsible for maintenance from the pole to the meter. If there has been damage on the weatherhead or drop to the meter base, it's quite likely they will come out and repair it for you. Here in NY, if you're within about 100' of the road, they'll do all of it for no charge. Beyond that, the price gets kind of steep, but *they* still do the work. daestrom Some of the responses you have received are not corrent depending on the utility where you live and I am not familiar with Maryland. Some utilities go right to the meter socket and others only go to the point of attachment (insulator by weather head). You should hire a licensed electrician and he would disconect at weather head under live conditions, repair the entrance and make connectiions to restore power. Need to be sure he pulls a permit and notifies local wire inspector and the inspector notifies the power company. Power company will come out and replace electricians temp connections and use their own as they liable for connections from their wire to yours. This is very important because many times the electrician uses temp connections and never takes permit and after a while connections break down and customer could have serious problem. Best thing you can do is get a qualified licensed electrician that knows and follows proper proceedure for you power company. If that neutral his only hanging be a few strands you should have it taken care of asap because if that breaks you could have serious problems. > The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from > the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Thanks, Dick: > If that neutral his only hanging be a few strands you should have it taken > care of asap because if that breaks you could have serious problems. Would you please expand on this statement (why, how, etc.)? Thanks, SignatureJohn English > Dick: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks, The neutral provides a center reference of 120V between the two 240V hot lines. If the neutral breaks, the center reference will be lost. Some current can flow through the ground system, but often not enough, particularly if the house isn't feed by city water with metal pipes. With the neutral connected, the voltage can drift around. If a heavy current draw appliance is running on one leg, it can put significant voltage on the neutral line. This will increase the voltage on appliances connected to the other phase, often damaging them. It's quite common to have all appliances that have always on electronics to fail... TV, VCR, microwave, DVD, alarm clocks, etc. > Some of the responses you have received are not corrent depending on > the utility where you live and I am not familiar with Maryland. Some [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Need to be sure he pulls a permit and notifies local wire inspector > and the inspector notifies the power company. That may or may not apply. If it gets called in as storm damage or an emergency repair (since the neutral may give out at the demarc), the Power Co. may send out an electrical contractor to repair it on their dime. Also, some times the inspection process is waived in cases of simple emergency repairs. As an electrician who used to do emergency customer electric service repairs for a Power Co., I would recommend that he call it in as an emergency repair and see how the ball rolls. If he is a senior citizen he should mention it to the Power Co. also. You probably paid your electric bill late a few times. Because of that, your power company wants you dead. This happens quite often. They intentionally do not answer you in a manner that makes sense so they can electrocute you. For them, it's all fun and games, and you wont pay your bill late ever again. This is not a "Drop Repair", it's a DROP DEAD. I suggest you make sure your life insurance is paid. Then pray, go to confession, and receive holy communion before you tackle the job. When you get to the top of the ladder, make the sign of the cross and say these words "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen". Remember, Jesus loves you. You will soon meet him. Father James Lucas - St. Pauls Catholic Church ------- >The weatherhead was yanked off the service entrance conduit extending from >the roof by a fallen branch. The ground / neutral conductor of the power drop [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Thanks, |
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