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Homeowner Forum / Construction / May 2006how to get subcontract construction work
Hi everyone, I have 12 years experience in placing and installing reinforcement into concrete foundations in residential homes, and I'm looking to get into sub-contracting. I'd really appreciate some advice on how to deal with a lot of these general contractors with whom I'm attempting to get work with. . I recently quit working as a laborer installing post tension cables into concrete slabs, as I just decided it would be best to go out on my own as a sub-contractor. I don't have any workers but me, but if the jobs are small and easy, I can handle it. At least in the meantime. But the problem is actually getting a contract. I've called up at least 8 different concrete contractor companies in the area asking for work installing the post tension cables into their slabs. All of them don't seem to be interested. I'm really desperate for the work and I'm running out of money quick. Even though the construction industry is literally booming out here in south central Texas, my "skill" really isn't in demand. Unfortunately, there is just so much competition out there installing the cables in subcontracting, and I attribute this to the fact that there is very low overhead involved in getting started up and it doesn't require much, if any, skill. And what really doesn't help is when these jobs have been completey swamped by illegal aliens. Not only are they the laborers, but the subs as well, and this will make it even harder to compete. It's my understanding that going rate out here for post tension installation is between 14-18 cents a square foot, but the prices really flunctuate from contractor to contractor. One may pay 18 cents, another could pay only 12. It depends. I've called up every company in the area that I'd like to do business with, and I always end up getting no further than their secretaries. And they always give me the line about how their company has no immediate need for additional sub-contractors for post tension installation. After I'm informed of this bad news, and because I'm desperate, I politely ask if they could provide the phone # of the foreman in charge, so that way I could perhaps make him a better deal on the price than the other subs for a particular subdivision. Usually what then happens is the secretary will offer to take down my phone # and name and I'm told that it will be passed along to the foreman or superintendent. As you've probably guessed already, I never hear anything back. And, whenever I ask their office exactly how much their company is paying for post tension cable installation, they tell me, "I don't know, but if the foreman wants to call you back, he'll tell you." It would be helpful info to know the price, so I can have an idea of how much wiggle room I'd have in my own bid to lower the price in order to get work. What should I do in order to get subcontract work in a line of work that is not in demand? Should I call back their offices, and become much more aggressive and specific about how much lower of a price I could give them under the other subs (even though I still don't know exactly how much their other subs charge) or should I just quote them a very low price over the phone in hopes that they do a comparison? Should I say something like "please pass along to the foreman that I will do it 5 cents a square foot cheaper than the other subs in that subdivision, whatever they are charging"? Then again, I still wonder if the foreman would actually care about that so much...especially if he is a hired superintendent on salary and not the company owner who would see the savings. And besides, maybe they'd rather keep their old subs anyway, just because they have a history of doing good work, and won't take a chance on me. What is the right way to approach and talk to these people in an attempt to get sub-contract work in my situation? What kind of sales pitch should I be using? What should I be saying? thank you, tysteel3000@aol.com  SignaturePhil Scott Ideas are bullet proof. > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > thank you, > tysteel3000@aol.com the savings you can offer if you cut the price in half would a few hundred dollars on a typical home... for that kind of savings no one is going to upset the arrangements they have with their current subs....thats if you could save half..but you wont be able to do that..maybe you can save them 20% and still stay in business... 20% wont buy them lunch.. they dont care... these have deals 1,000 times bigger on their plate every day...if they took time to deal with one guy on items this small they would get nothing done. Sorry thats just how it is. If you want to get into the business join the local builders exchange and go into their plan rooms and bid on whatever you are licensed for...if its only post tension, then dont bother with the homes...thats too small for anyone to change... if you go for large buildings you run into a different set of issues, risk...you are a one man show, on a big job few will want to take the risk of dealing with you. My advice, broaden your skill set, licensing, and then quote work in the 10,000 to 30,000 dollar range, 10% under the market to start... its still not easy if you are looking for just the post tension, and as you say in a market with illegal aliens able to do the work for 5 dollars an hour.... You need to find a better niche...something that takes either brains or equipment.... concrete sawing and core drilling is one such market...you can rent the equipment to start...also you can buy a bob cat or ditch witch..and sub that sort of work, or learn tile laying, then go for the high end work... the low end is going to the illegals... stay out of those markets. Advertising. Hang out with the boys...in texas its insiders good old boys club...if you are not in the club you can work free and not get any work.. Phil Scott > You need to find a better niche...something that takes either brains or > equipment.... concrete sawing and core drilling is one such market...you > can rent the equipment to start...also you can buy a bob cat or ditch > witch..and sub that sort of work, or learn tile laying, then go for the > high end work... the low end is going to the illegals... stay out of > those markets. Although most of these words are discouraging, it's the truth, and I tend to agree. Trying to compete with illegal aliens, in an unskilled market, wouldn't be my first career choice. > > You need to find a better niche...something that takes either brains or > > equipment.... concrete sawing and core drilling is one such market...you [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Trying to compete with illegal aliens, in an unskilled market, wouldn't be > my first career choice. Thank you to everyone who has given me advice. So far, I still haven't found any work as a sub-contractor, and of course that should come as no surprise. I've called up some other companies over the last two days, and none of them want to bite. In retrospect, I really regret spending the last 12 years of my life working a lousy job like steel tying/post tension cable installing. Of all the jobs I could've done, I sure picked a really good trade to make money in, didn't I? It's not worth a sh.t. I became involved in it because one of my relatives was a sub-contractor and he offered me a job immediately and it paid better than minimum wage. I might as well say I have no skills at all. I don't know what happens from this point on. I think I'm going to have to give up on working in the construction industry, at least down here. All the construction down here in San Antonio, Texas is completely swamped by the illegal aliens, and they are running the jobs as well. I don't speak very good spanish, and almost none of them understand english, so it's not likely I'm going to get hired anywhere in this market. And even if I did manage to get a job, it would be very stressful situation if there is a communication problem, as doing a construction work requires team work and getting along. I'd probably either be fired or hazed by the illegals on the first day. I guess if I want to work construction again, I'll need to move up north...way, way up north. I've tried putting in applications at other places like Walmart and Home depot, and none of those companies are biting either. Seems I'm at a point where I'm just unemployable with no marketable job skills that are worth a damn. I could make one last ditch effort to get sub-contract work.... I could offer to do the jobs half the price of what the other subs are doing it for to get a particular subdivision to myself. The price will be really low, but at least some money is better than none. But even if I offer to cut the price in half, they may not bite that either. I doubt it. >Thank you to everyone who has given me advice. So far, I still haven't >found any work as a sub-contractor, and of course that should come as [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >better than minimum wage. I might as well say I have no skills at >all. Chin up! I'm sure all of us has a story to tell. It's never too late in life to head a different direction. I worked construction most of my life, I had my own business for fourteen years. It took a toll, which I won't go into. Anyways, I decided to call it quits, and now have a job with our State Department of Transportation. It's something I enjoy, but the money isn't there like it once was. Happiness, health, and family is what it's all about. If you can make big dollars thrown in with the rest, my hat's off to you. Good luck. SignaturePhil Scott Ideas are bullet proof. Moisés Nacio wrote: > "Phil Scott" wrote > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > market, wouldn't be > my first career choice. Thank you to everyone who has given me advice. So far, I still haven't found any work as a sub-contractor, and of course that should come as no surprise. I've called up some other companies over the last two days, and none of them want to bite. In retrospect, I really regret spending the last 12 years of my life working a lousy job like steel tying/post tension cable installing. Of all the jobs I could've done, I sure picked a really good trade to make money in, didn't I? It's not worth a sh.t. I became involved in it because one of my relatives was a sub-contractor and he offered me a job immediately and it paid better than minimum wage. I might as well say I have no skills at all. I don't know what happens from this point on. I think I'm going to have to give up on working in the construction industry, at least down here. All the construction down here in San Antonio, Texas is completely swamped by the illegal aliens, and they are running the jobs as well. I don't speak very good spanish, and almost none of them understand english, so it's not likely I'm going to get hired anywhere in this market. And even if I did manage to get a job, it would be very stressful situation if there is a communication problem, as doing a construction work requires team work and getting along. I'd probably either be fired or hazed by the illegals on the first day. I guess if I want to work construction again, I'll need to move up north...way, way up north. I've tried putting in applications at other places like Walmart and Home depot, and none of those companies are biting either. Seems I'm at a point where I'm just unemployable with no marketable job skills that are worth a damn. I could make one last ditch effort to get sub-contract work.... I could offer to do the jobs half the price of what the other subs are doing it for to get a particular subdivision to myself. The price will be really low, but at least some money is better than none. But even if I offer to cut the price in half, they may not bite that either. I doubt it. dont work that cheap...its fatal... start with handyman work, painting, fixing things, building decks and fences for cash you might say.. etc..learn as you go... start with a rate of 15 dollars an hour... you will learn fast. In a year you can get 25 dollars an hour, in 4 or 5 years if you stay on this NG and learn you can get 50 to 75 dollars an hour most big cities...doing a full range of quality handyman work. Build a good tool collection... you need those to advance in the trades. Dress and groom immaculately, be totally clean and neat at all times... hair cut every two weeks max. clean pressed pants and shirt every day... sloppy dress will cut your rate in half. Learn to behave proffessionally... dont eat like an animal even in private...study up on that... it will double your net income. Phil Scott you already found it out, its all about connections. price isn't the main thing. make part off contractor parties, i did that as well. make connections! when you get the job: do you work smiling and do what you agreed with the costummer. be flexibel. > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > thank you, > tysteel3000@aol.com > you already found it out, its all about connections. price isn't the main > thing. make part off contractor parties, i did that as well. make > connections! > when you get the job: > do you work smiling and do what you agreed with the costummer. be flexibel. Hi Jan, Yes, I know it's about connections, but I don't have any at all. I understand that this is a big reason why I'm not getting picked up as a sub-contractor. But I do need to desperately get work because I'm running out of money and time. Since I don't have connections, what would be my best bet or pitch in getting work? For instance, how much lower of a price should I be offering in order to get my foot in the door? Even though I don't have connections, maybe it's possible that at least one company will bite and say "money talks..bullshit walks." How should I be presenting my offer to do their work? Since I don't know specifically how much these companies are paying their subs to install post tension cables, they won't tell me over the phone at their front offices, should I say something vague like, "tell the foreman I can do the job 25% less of the price the other subs are doing it for" or should I just quote a very specific price that I think is really low....like 11 cents a square foot? I just need to start making money because I've been unemployed now for a few weeks, and had no unemployment from my old job. Thanks > > you already found it out, its all about connections. price isn't the main > > thing. make part off contractor parties, i did that as well. make [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > unemployed now for a few weeks, and had no unemployment from my old > job. A builder is about as likely to hire a contractor over the phone as you are to buy stock from some telemarketer. You need to work up a picture portfolio of your work and projects you've worked on, have a list of references the builder can call, and visit the builders personally. Most likely you will meet resistance if you don't have an appointment to meet with someone. You can still drop by, drop off a brochure that you printed up on your computer listing who you are and what you do with the necessary contact information, smile and make a good impression with the secretary or whoever will meet with you and hope for the best. Unfortunately your present circumstances probably come across in your approach. If you are desperate, you probably sound desperate and that's a major turnoff for anyone. You should really look at this in a different way. Dropping your price to get the job is racing someone to the bottom of the food chain. As soon as someone else has a lower price, or you try to raise yours, you'll get dropped. There's no security in that scenario. > > > you already found it out, its all about connections. price isn't the main > > > thing. make part off contractor parties, i did that as well. make [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > A builder is about as likely to hire a contractor over the phone as you > are to buy stock from some telemarketer. Sell quality and on-time service to the foundation contractors. Make sure that your first job with a new contractor *PERFECT* ... it must be ahead of schedule, pass all inspections the first time, be super clean (remove all your trash and any that might be remotely connected to you from the site), have no issues what so ever. Talk to your cable supplier, ask him which foundation contractors need help. Win-Win for the cable supplier, the foundation contractor and you. Offer to to one job for free and the rest at $xxxx/what-ever if the free one is OK. Do not laugh I know a guy started a very successful business with a similar offer. SignaturePhil Scott Ideas are bullet proof. > >> you already found it out, its all about connections. price [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Thanks Do this.... get a job doing anything for whatever they pay...then get handyman cards printed, carry a cell phone... do the jobs on the weekend.... after that builds up to a thousand dollars a month, take a week off from the job, and make cold calls to small businesses 8 hours a day for 5 days...that will land you about 4,000 dollars in work...do the work, take a week off and repeat the cold calls. Phil Scott >>>I understand that this is a big reason why I'm not getting picked up as a sub-contractor.<<< That's not the reason................ Around here the iron workers install the post tension cables as part of their contract. Because installing them is such a small job, there would be no reason a super would want to bother calling/scheduling another contractor to it done. It would also be just another potential hold-up if you couldn't get there at exactly the time they need you there. I have worked on ramp garages and when pouring a section of the deck, first we install the bottom half of the bulkhead. (that has holes drilled in it for rebar and cables) Then the rebar is layed in place, the cables are laid in place and the top half of the bulkhead is installed. As this is happening, concrete is already on the road and a dozen labors/masons are standing there ready to pour concrete. A hold up at this point would cost thousands of dollars. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) Hi Jan, Yes, I know it's about connections, but I don't have any at all. But I do need to desperately get work because I'm running out of money and time. Go back to school and learn something else. Maddog > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > thank you, > tysteel3000@aol.com > Go back to school and learn something else. LOL, Felix, that's easier said than done. Especially when you are a guy who lives from paycheck to paycheck, there really isn't the luxury of time so much. This is even more true when you are in a situation in which you are unemployed and fighting for basic survival. I may end up getting my old job back, but it will take a lot of begging. But there is one thing I do know. This time, I will make sure to save up a lot of money, enough to cover 3 months worth of living expenses, and afterwards I'll have the luxury of time to find or study something else worthwhile. ========== Ty Steel ========== Call the B.a. of the Indianapolis Ironworker's union and try to get on as a permit hand or offer (beg) to join the apprenticeship. You need to learn more skills. Working at one thing is fine when you are young but, what happens as you slow down? All of the Mexicans are busting their little brown a.ses. You need to try. If you do come up here don't whine on one of my jobs. Confidence and appearances will take you a long way in life. The best ones even earn the title of B.S arteest |
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