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Homeowner Forum / Construction / May 2006



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? re: neighbours' planned renovation

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mig - 16 May 2006 06:33 GMT
Hi,

First, I apologize if this is completely off topic for this group (and
for its length, but this is going to make me sick). If there's a
better group to ask, please let me know.

My wife and I have been living in the El Cerrito hills (near Berkeley)
for the past year, after her father willed her his house, which is in
a very nice neighbourhood of 1950's built homes, with most being in
the 800k - 1.2m range.  We are first time homeowners and have never
had to deal with this type of thing before. We both have modest
incomes.

My next door neighbours - the 'sheriffs' of our neighbourhood,
actually minister/minister's wife - very paricular about their
property, likes to offer suggestions re. weeding, branch cutting,
etc,. approached me a couple weeks ago with plans for a major addition
to his house, but tried at the time to downplay its size, saying it
was to build a study above their garage.

At the time he seemed genuinely concerned about how this would impact
us and left the blueprints for me to look over.  After studying them I
came to the conclusion that this was, at least to me, a wildly
amibitious project.that was much more than just building a study above
their garage.

I wrote down the issues I had with the project, which included:

- property value loss on our side
- esthetics
- privacy
- constuction debris and men and equipment on our property during the
constuction (since he only has 5 feet to work with)
- the height of their addition (I don't actually have an issue with
the depth, outside of the actual construction that'll be going on for
many months)
- lastly, the fact that I work from home and it would be impossible to
work from home  - or even be at home - during construction

(incidentally, his house will be 3 stories above ours in the end, and
I can't find a house within several miles radius of ours where two
adjacent homes have one home higher than one story over the other, let
alone three)

I mentioned in the letter that if this project went forward, I'd have
to put in either fencing or trees to improve privacy and interfere
with the alley-look of such a large structure so close to our house.

He responded with a nicely written letter that tried to address some
of these concerns, but fell way short.

- he won't do anything about the height
- he assures me the windows will be high on the walls only to allow in
light
- he had no sympathy for the fact that I work from home, can't really
blame him on that tho
- he offered to pay for trees or large bushes, but, not surprisingly,
was making recommendations on which trees/bushes and where to put them

He had nothing to say about how this would impact our property value.

This will be going to the city in a hearing and I need some advice.

First, what's the chances I can beat this?
Second, what are the rules about contractors operating on someone
else's property when they can't access the 'site' via the home they
are working on. I ask this because they only have 5 feet to work with
between their house and our property.
And third, if there's anything anyone can offer as advice I'd
appreciate it.  This is a disaster for us, me especially since I'm on
the computer at home 6 hours a day..

I have a web site with some photos of the situation for anyone who can
take a couple minutes to look at it.

http://www.migrogers.com/home/home2/index.html

Thank you,

Mig
Grumman-581 - 16 May 2006 06:44 GMT
> My wife and I have been living in the El Cerrito hills (near Berkeley)
> for the past year, after her father willed her his house, which is in
> a very nice neighbourhood of 1950's built homes, with most being in
> the 800k - 1.2m range.  We are first time homeowners and have never
> had to deal with this type of thing before. We both have modest
> incomes.

$800K - $1.2M for *those* houses?  Wow, ya'll really are getting
screwed over there... Around here, $1.2M will probably get your a
5-car garage estate...
Al Bundy - 28 May 2006 04:51 GMT
>> My wife and I have been living in the El Cerrito hills (near Berkeley)
>> for the past year, after her father willed her his house, which is in
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> screwed over there... Around here, $1.2M will probably get your a
> 5-car garage estate...

Here too!

I'm not criticizing at all. Thoughts as I read and viewed pics:

> the 800k - 1.2m range.

Holy crap! Here I would need a gps indoors for something in the $ range.
Could sh.t my pants finding a bathroom.

> We are first time homeowners

How do first time homeowners jump right into that $ range???!!

> We both have modest incomes.

How can incomes be modest with a mortgage like that???!!
Phil Scott - 28 May 2006 05:49 GMT
Signature

Phil Scott
Ideas are bullet proof.

>
>>> My wife and I have been living in the El Cerrito hills
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> How can incomes be modest with a mortgage like that???!!

err...Bundy ol pal... their message said they inherited it...
next comes the state property tax going ballistic... that
could be more than house payments if they had any,

Its getting nasty fast on the taxation front with thousands of
new civil service retirements a year...many, the CHP for
instance at 100 to 130,000 dollars a year,,,each cop.

a lot of property owners living on rice and beans will go
broke paying for that

Phil Scott
Al Bundy - 29 May 2006 00:16 GMT
"Phil Scott" <philscott@philscott.net> wrote in news:e5ba3s$hh5$1
@news.tdl.com:

>>>> My wife and I have been living in the El Cerrito hills
>>>> (near Berkeley)
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> Phil Scott

> ... their message said they inherited it...

errrr..., ughhhh...., duhhhhh.... so it did. How bout that! I'm old and
don't think my memory is what it used to be. Not sure. Can't remember how
good it was. Good part is when I whack my finger with the hammer (old
eyes too) 5 min later I forget I did it and that it's suppose to hurt.

> Its getting nasty fast on the taxation front with thousands of
> new civil service retirements a year...

When I lived in one rural area I often saw farmers just say to hell with
it. Lotsa land and even with special tax rates, so many have inherited a
lot of land and even the special rate times much land breaks 'em.
Developer says I'll give ya $x million for x acres. No brainer for them.
Up go the houses 25 ft apart, apts, shopping area. Hear others say "Awww
they shouldn't sell. Keep it rural". None offer up $ of their own to help
pay taxes.

> ...the CHP for > instance at 100 to 130,000 dollars a year,,,each cop.

Well, there's a difference between being a cop in Barneyville and the
Bronx or Bedford-Stuyvesant. I don't aye or nay the CHP $ situation since
I don't know what they typically face.
Phil Scott - 29 May 2006 03:17 GMT
Signature

Phil Scott
Ideas are bullet proof.

> "Phil Scott" <philscott@philscott.net> wrote in
> news:e5ba3s$hh5$1
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
> situation since
> I don't know what they typically face.

Most cops are never caused to draw their weapon in an entire
career...its safe in that aspect... police work is not even in
the common lists of most dangerous occupations.

vastly more common though is arriving on accident or murder
scenes and witnessng the carnage..thats hard on a person...
the average cop probaly sees this once a year... tough going
no doubt.

An RN nurse in an emergency room however sees this many times
a day for an entire career.

Eating all those donuts, and raising revenue by stalking
people in traffic is hard on a person, such corruption rots a
person from the inside out.

Phil Scott
Nehmo Sergheyev - 16 May 2006 07:17 GMT
I feel sorry for your neighbor - because *his* neighbor is moving
into an old and crabby stage of life.
Let him build his house, and allow him to use your property during the
job. Don't write him anymore nasty letters.

--
         (||) Nehmo (||)
tbasc@bellsouth.net - 16 May 2006 12:24 GMT
Over all, I think things should work out o.k.
I work at home in a neighborhood with a lot of building in progress.
I use music to help mask the outside noise and pay attention to my
work.
The noisy part of the construction process should be a few months.
If the municipality doesn't have rules about hours of work, negotiate
some.
Your property values may rise.
Talk to a realtor.
Since the neighbors seem to be willing to pay for planting on your
property,
negotiate  an arrangement for repars to your landscaping.
You might want to pay an architect to look at the drawings and make
comments on your concerns.
TB
bitternut - 16 May 2006 12:54 GMT
You don't mention just what code he will be in violation of. I assume he
will be asking for a variance and that is why they are having a hearing.
Also what direction are you facing when looking at your neighbors house?  Is
he adding only one story to his present house, how do you come up with three
story height? It appears from your pictures that if they cross over the
property line they will be falling into your back yard. Doubt they will be
doing that on purpose.

It also appears from the one picture that you will gain more privacy since
he is replacing the present windows with higher windows that would limit his
view into your backyard. You mentioned that you work from home so if it were
me I would sell the house and move some place where you could have some
space and control more of your environment. Should be able to find some
pretty nice home sites for the kind of money you mentioned as the value of
homes there. It would be better than living next door to a pi$$ed off
neighbor.

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 76 lines]
>
> Mig
butch burton - 16 May 2006 14:18 GMT
A friend used to live in El Cerrito - and those tiny shotgun style
houses, no basement - gravity furnace in a hole in the ground - are
going for unreal prices - they sold out too soon and moved to Grass
Valley in the foothills of the Sierra.  I suspect property values will
plunge when the fed increases the interest rates a few more 1/4 points
- those housing values may never see this level again.

I would take the money and run to another place which has more
realistic values.  Those houses in most places would be priced well
under 100K in most markets - reality will strike - sell out before it
does is my advice.
mig - 16 May 2006 21:14 GMT
Thanks for everyone's feedback.  I appreciate it.

We can't move for a couple years because of a technicality with the
transfer of ownership.  The house was built by my wife's father, an
architect, back in the 50's for 35k.  If we moved within two years of
taking ownership we'd be responsible for the taxes that he would've
had to pay if he were still living and decided to move himself.  So
moving's not an option.

spacetrax is right, in that properties in this area are ridiculously
expensive.  Median home prices in what is considered the ghetto on
this side of the bay, Richmond, which is one of the most dangerous
cities in the US, are going for +200.

bitternut - both houses are built on a hill.  His house is built
slightly higher on that hill even though the houses are side by side.
So his house is built, by virtue of the land, one story or
thereabouts, above our house.  So it would be like a one-story house
alongside a 3-story house after he adds this new level, if you will.

His house faces the west, ours faces the east.  They are side by side,
but with addresses on different streets, and our backyard goes all the
way to his street, while his backyard goes all the way to our street.
So neither of us have neighbours behind us, only neighbours in front,
but across the street, which is typical.  So both our backyards hit a
street, not another home.

I mean, I don't want to be a prick about it, but all's he's offering
is to put in some bushes for us, but not surpringly, he's already got
the type of bushes and their locations (on our property) picked out.
lol

I sense that we're being pushed around by these people, and have felt
that way since we moved in.  In fact, on the very day we were moving
in, at 10am that morning, he came out to introduce himself and
immediately went over some ground rules about noise, yard upkeep, etc.
Right away I thought, "Oh, oh, here we go..."
One day I came home to discover a huge chunk of the limbs of our tree
in our front yard cut down that was entering his properties' airspace,
and he knocked on our door to inform me that to make the tree
symmetrical it would be my responsibility to do the limbs on the other
side of the tree.  I mean, wtf?  It was a little tree, minding it's
own business... didn't even bother to let me know he would be hacking
off its limbs, just went ahead and did it.  

So, no, I really don't care what he thinks of me.  But I do believe
the right outcome is always the equitable outcome for everyone, even
if I don't like the guy..

Thanks again.

:A friend used to live in El Cerrito - and those tiny shotgun style
:houses, no basement - gravity furnace in a hole in the ground - are
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
:under 100K in most markets - reality will strike - sell out before it
:does is my advice.
Mike Robinson - 17 May 2006 07:00 GMT
The tree limbs he cut down were legally his to cut in most areas. However he
better have disposed of the limbs, not dump them on your property.
 
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