Balance between Man and nature? Who are we kidding?
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Enough Already - 13 Aug 2005 18:53 GMT The average "conserv"ative has great respect for nature, as long as they can mine, drill, hunt, fish, drive, snowmobile or jet-ski in it. The agenda has always been clear: nature has minimal value unless people can take something from it, and that doesn't mean photographs.
When it comes to Man and nature, "conserv"atives have an interesting way of interpreting the word "balance." They define balance as people taking over more and more wilderness with a few token pieces spared in each foray. An example is leaving 10 acres of park space in a new 1,000 acre subdivision. 990 acres get developed but those 10 acres are hailed as a "victory" for preservationists who should be grateful a rare plant or lizard wasn't wiped out. Accommodating more and more people is all that really matters, or course.
The standard joke is to cut down 1,000 trees and call the development "Whispering Pines" or "Green Oaks" when it should really be called "Houses Unlimited" or "Growth-Addict Manor." Clever names are how we kid ourselves that a semblance of balance still exists.
The net result of those apparent compromises is less wilderness and more development, but that's the whole idea in our grow-forever pyramid scheme economy. Finite land is treated as virtually infinite as long as there's _some_ place on the horizon left to develop. A time when growth will finally end is something developers never talk about. All they see is money from the next acquisition, and the next, and the next...
The reason why the GNP (aka consumption) "must" never stop growing is a mystery; unless we want the population to never stop growing? Making the land ever more crowded is improving our quality of life? Never mind that were not getting richer in real terms; just deeper in debt with fancier toys. Chasing a fantasy of infinite wealth via mindless growth has become the American way. Lots of big thinkers out there.
Actual balance between Man and nature would mean that for every 100 homes built, an equivalent 100 would be torn down somewhere to free up wilderness. Or, for every mile of new paved road, an existing road would become a dirt trail and eventually be masked by vegetation. But that's not how it works.
There is NO balance, just more mindless growth each day, with economists hailing it as a good thing because it keeps the sacred GNP growing (for what ultimate purpose they can't say). Every time you get happy over more housing-starts, be aware that nature's just lost another round to overpopulation.
E.A.
http://enough_already.tripod.com/ If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
Duane Bozarth - 13 Aug 2005 19:13 GMT > The average "conserv"ative has great respect for nature, as long as > they can mine, drill, hunt, fish, drive, snowmobile or jet-ski in it. ...
> The net result of those apparent compromises is less wilderness and > more development, but that's the whole idea in our grow-forever pyramid > scheme economy. ... I suspect if you were to poll all the Californians, etc., that are builing all over Montana, Colorado, etc., that you will find a very large (even disproportionate) percentage of them will be of very "liberal" political persuasion--sorta' negates the hypothesis, methinks.
Matt Whiting - 13 Aug 2005 22:05 GMT >>The average "conserv"ative has great respect for nature, as long as >>they can mine, drill, hunt, fish, drive, snowmobile or jet-ski in it. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > large (even disproportionate) percentage of them will be of very > "liberal" political persuasion--sorta' negates the hypothesis, methinks. It isn't hard to negate a hypothesis as blatantly stupid as this one anyway.
Matt
Duane Bozarth - 13 Aug 2005 22:41 GMT > >>The average "conserv"ative has great respect for nature, as long as > >>they can mine, drill, hunt, fish, drive, snowmobile or jet-ski in it. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > It isn't hard to negate a hypothesis as blatantly stupid as this one anyway. Well, that's certainly true, but seemed too good of an opportunity to not take at the hypocrites...
Matt Whiting - 13 Aug 2005 22:58 GMT >>>>The average "conserv"ative has great respect for nature, as long as >>>>they can mine, drill, hunt, fish, drive, snowmobile or jet-ski in it. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Well, that's certainly true, but seemed too good of an opportunity to > not take at the hypocrites... Flee temptation, my son! :-)
Matt
Lil' Dave - 14 Aug 2005 01:55 GMT Multi-group post thrwarted.
BS. You're talking symptoms, not the problem. The problem, as it continues to be for the past 100 years, is there's too many people on the planet. Some may argue the time period. Fix that problem, and all the other symptoms will disappear. But all our economics is based on more. GNP, Social Security, pension plans, and the remainder of the economic system depends on more resources, more products, and yes, more people (consumers). Human population has continued to increase and habitats get pushed aside. Species are killed off by bureaucracy. So, the solution is what?
You can talk about each and every tree, but you can't see the forest. Oh, but forests give us lumber. And lumber is used for building, now its not off-topic...
> The average "conserv"ative has great respect for nature, as long as > they can mine, drill, hunt, fish, drive, snowmobile or jet-ski in it. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > http://enough_already.tripod.com/ > If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague. Duane Bozarth - 14 Aug 2005 15:20 GMT ...
> BS. You're talking symptoms, not the problem. The problem, as it continues > to be for the past 100 years, is there's too many people on the planet.... You volunteering to become part of your perceived solution???? :)
Lil' Dave - 15 Aug 2005 11:26 GMT > ... > > BS. You're talking symptoms, not the problem. The problem, as it continues > > to be for the past 100 years, is there's too many people on the planet.... > > You volunteering to become part of your perceived solution???? :) No, but I did ask the OP for his solution. What's yours?
Duane Bozarth - 15 Aug 2005 14:04 GMT > > ... > > > BS. You're talking symptoms, not the problem. The problem, as it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > No, but I did ask the OP for his solution. What's yours? I was replying to OP...just didn't get threaded properly, apparently...
CWatters - 14 Aug 2005 10:05 GMT The graphs look startling...
http://www.ipcc.ch/present/graphics/2001syr/large/02.01.jpg http://www.ipcc.ch/present/graphics/2001syr/large/02.21.jpg http://www.ipcc.ch/present/graphics/2001syr/large/05.16.jpg
more here http://www.ipcc.ch/present/graphics.htm
3D Peruna - 15 Aug 2005 02:47 GMT > The average "conserv"ative has great respect for nature, as long as > they can mine, drill, hunt, fish, drive, snowmobile or jet-ski in it. > The agenda has always been clear: nature has minimal value unless > people can take something from it, and that doesn't mean photographs. You have NO idea what the hell you're talking about...
John David Galt - 22 Aug 2005 22:20 GMT > The average "conserv"ative has great respect for nature, as long as > they can mine, drill, hunt, fish, drive, snowmobile or jet-ski in it. > The agenda has always been clear: nature has minimal value unless > people can take something from it, and that doesn't mean photographs. That's right, in both senses of the word. The earth is for Man. Live with it.
Paul DeRocco - 25 Aug 2005 07:34 GMT > "Enough Already" <enough_already@lycos.com> wrote > > If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague. If you want to consider yourself a member of a plague species, feel free to eradicate yourself.
Joe - 26 Aug 2005 14:13 GMT If you want to consider yourself a member of a plague species, feel free to eradicate yourself. ********************************************************************* hehehehe Good suggestion. He probably doesn't do anything but complain, anyway.
 Signature JerryD(upstateNY)
"Enough Already" <enough_already@lycos.com> wrote If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
If you want to consider yourself a member of a plague species, feel free to eradicate yourself.
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