 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneralRural LivingHome AutomationSecurity AlarmsConstructionRepairPlumbingCleaningPest ControlLawn and Garden |
Homeowner Forum / Construction / June 2005Building a simple home that will last.
If you wanted to build the lowest cost possible 1,500 SF home (looks don't matter), but it needs to last for 50 years, how would you build it? The area I live in (North Alabama) gets a lot of rain, 57" a year. I initially wanted to build a 2 story rectangular concrete block, with a simple gable roof, but it's difficult to find anyone around here that builds with block. Now I'm thinking about a 2 story stick built home. My concern is that a 2 story house will have large walls that are exposed to the rain. I was thinking that a 1 story house with an overhanging roof might be inherently more dry. Is this a big deal? Will vinyl siding reliably protect an exposed wall from getting wet? If your stick built home does start to rot, is it hard to fix? Any ideas would be appreciated! > If you wanted to build the lowest cost possible 1,500 SF home (looks > don't matter), but it needs to last for 50 years, how would you build [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Any ideas would be appreciated! Block with a steel truss tile roof if its in the woods where there could be a fire especially. two story to cut down the size of the roof. Hire a contractor to help you get the permits lay the foundation and run the sewer etc..and supervise the job,window and door fits etc, then hire whom-ever to do the block work as an owner builder. if you want it to look nice use architectural block that has a broken stone look on one side. Spend any extra money on a beefed up foundation. have 24" eves.. the building will age well that way. and use less energy. Do the interior walls with 2" of polyurethane, with mesh over, then plastered. talk to your contractor about vapor barrier issues. Orient one side of the roof to the south west and it it with solar panels.. power will be a bigger issue shortly. Wood etc will rot and require maintenance over time. Plastic siding wont last 50 years. steel frame with plastic siding might but it would be a cheezy set up imho...prone to deterioration as well. Phil Scott > Wood etc will rot and require maintenance over time. Plastic > siding wont last 50 years. steel frame with plastic siding > might but it would be a cheezy set up imho...prone to > deterioration as well. I used to live in Florida in a block house. The carport was turned into a kitchen, but it was made of wood. It started rotting and leaking, even thought it was much newer than the rest of the house. If I can find a builder who can build block here, I'll do it. Hopefully since it will be a simple design I can find someone. Thanks! You might look at areated concrete panels. They are light and easy to cut. TB > You might look at areated concrete panels. > They are light and easy to cut. > TB Yes, that is a good option as well. I used Superior Walls precast walls for my basement in my log house, however, they work equally well above ground. They may be a little more costly than other options, but they go up fast and should last a long time. Matt > If you wanted to build the lowest cost possible 1,500 SF home (looks > don't matter), but it needs to last for 50 years, how would you build > it? Be square. A square building has less lineal feet of wall than a rectangular building. For example a 40'x40' house has 160 lineal feet, while a 20'x80' house has 200 lineal feet. Both contain 1600 square feet, but that's more wall to build, insulate, and finish inside. Long term, it's also greater heat loss. Single story. If you plan on living in this house for 50 years, you'll come to appreciate not having to climb those stairs when you get older. And, stairs waste space, at least 36 square feet on EACH floor. Stick framing. Quick and easy to build, and simple to repair/modify in the future. Stud walls also give you a place to run electrical, plumbing, etc. Simple structure. Quickest would be four exterior walls and roof trusses. Alternatively, you can put a taller support wall down the center, and set rafters on the center and exterior wall to form a simple gable. Simple foundation. Concrete slab is probably the cheapest floor structure, but it complicates plumbing, insulation, etc. Posts and beams would probably be easy also (think pole barn), but I don't know if it would survive 50 years? If you don't have a deep frost line, my choice is a crawlspace. Easy to build, elevates the building off the ground (minimize rot), and provides easy access for plumbing, electrical, or future maintenance/upgrades. Build it yourself. Much of the cost of a house is labor. If you can do it yourself, you can save a bundle. Minimize materials. A combination sheathing/siding (think T-111) will be faster and cheaper than separate sheathing and siding (even vinyl). And, try to group plumbing close together if possible. With some of these ideas in mind, my wife and I recently built our own home. It's a single story, 40'x40', three bedroom, includes a 6'x24' covered porch, leaving 1456 square feet. It took us about 20 months to build (doing all the labor ourselves), and cost $60,000 in materials/tools (Washington State). We splurged on tile, hardwood floors, wood ceilings, and other non-necessities. So, it could certainly be done for less if money were the main issue. > The area I live in (North Alabama) gets a lot of rain, 57" a year. Think wide roof overhangs, elevate the building up away from the soil, slope the yard away from the house, and make sure you have good drainage. Basically keep the water away from the house as much as possible. Hope this helps. Anthony > Single story. If you plan on living in this house for 50 years, you'll come > to appreciate not having to climb those stairs when you get older. And, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > rot), and provides easy access for plumbing, electrical, or future > maintenance/upgrades. I just talked to a builder last night. He echoed everything you just said. Stick built, 1 story, raised foundation. He said he could build a 1 story for about 10K less than a 2 story. I was thinking more of a 30X50 instead of 40X40. But I understand your point about square being more efficient. What was your floorplan like? With a 30X50 I can have a hallway down the center with rooms on either side. The other side is open for the Kitchen/Living Room. ------------------------- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | -------------- | | | -------------- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ------------------------- Any comments on brick vs vinyl siding? Thanks! > ------------------------- > | | | | | [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > | | | | | > ------------------------- Damn, that picture did not come out like it did in the preview! Please ignore it!!! Why not log home kits? They have many plans for that size, tin roof and then poorch on all 4 sides , should easily last 50 years I would think. Just my OP. G > Why not log home kits? They have many plans for that size, tin roof and > then poorch on all 4 sides , should easily last 50 years I would > think. I live in a log house and it is very nice, but it is also rather maintenance intensive. They will last indefinitely if properly maintained, but my original coating of stain lasted only 4 years. I'm told subsequent coats will last progressively longer (I just had it recoated), but will likely never get more than 8 years between stain applications. Matt - cr113 - > > ------------------------- > > | | | | | [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Damn, that picture did not come out like it did in the preview! Please > ignore it!!! - Nehmo - Designing and building a good, modern dwelling (note the adjectives) is a major undertaking. We do this with minimal difficulty because we employ the experience and mental labor of the many who have gone before us. Designing from scratch is fun, and don’t allow me to dissuade you. But from a practical standpoint, it’s inefficient. Thus, find an existing design using established methods, and modify if you want. Or, extending this philosophy, just buy a 16x80 mobile home. That would reasonably fit your specifications. |||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev |||||||||||||||| > Designing from scratch is fun, and don’t allow me to dissuade you. > But from a practical standpoint, it’s inefficient. We designed our own house to best accomodate our building site. Before this, we sifted through stacks and stacks of home plan books and couldn't find anything even remotely close to what we were looking for. However, it DID take us about 5-10 years to decide on a final plan. We went through lots of variations along the way before settling on the current one. It's definitely not something you just do on a whim. Also, since we were building the house ourselves, I designed the house from a construction standpoint as well. A generic house plan would probably use trusses or something methods that would be difficult to erect for one or two people working alone. I made sure that everything I designed would be easy to construct. > just buy a 16x80 mobile home. It's actually not a bad option. We bought a 14x56 mobile and lived on the site for 13 years before we built our house. If they wear out, they're inexpensive enough to replace with a new one (Ours wasn't holding up real well after 13 years). Anthony In a previous post HerHusband says... > It's actually not a bad option. We bought a 14x56 mobile and lived on the > site for 13 years before we built our house. If they wear out, they're > inexpensive enough to replace with a new one (Ours wasn't holding up real > well after 13 years). One way to extend the life is to put a separate "canopy" roof (sort of like a pole building) over the unit.  SignatureBob Morrison, PE, SE R L Morrison Engineering Co Structural & Civil Engineering Poulsbo WA In Pinetop, Arizona most mobile homes have those roofs. They call them snow roofs there. (It's been a while since I was there, I should say.) |||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev |||||||||||||||| >It's actually not a bad option. We bought a 14x56 mobile and lived on the > site for 13 years before we built our house. If they wear out, they're > inexpensive enough to replace with a new one (Ours wasn't holding up real > well after 13 years). I'm currently living in a 14X70. I had to bribe my wife to get her to move into it! :) I was really nervous about it at first, my last experience with a mobile home was in college and it was a piece of junk. I found 5 acres of beautiful property out in the country, but not far from work. I didn't want to take on that much debt so I opted for the trailer (13k). It's really not that bad, but now that I've paid off everything I'm ready for the next step. >> ------------------------- | | | | | | | | >> | | | | | | | -------------- | [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Damn, that picture did not come out like it did in the preview! > Please ignore it!!! cr113: Use a unit-spaced font when creating viewable pictures, and switch to that font prior to sending the message. You can switch back to the previous font later. Specify the font by font name, and place that spec. right in the same email as the drawing. If you didn't use a unit-spaced font specify the font used by font name, and place that spec. right in the same email as the drawing. Specify the browser, e.g., Mozilla 1.0, Netscape 8.0, or Internet Explorer. Their fonts are not always equivalent. If the recipient is using a proportional-spaced font he can switch to the unit-spaced font, and the drawing will appear as you intended. Ralph Hertle > I just talked to a builder last night. He echoed everything you just > said. Stick built, 1 story, raised foundation. He said he could build > a 1 story for about 10K less than a 2 story. We were working alone, so working height was also a concern of mine. The peak of the one story roof was plenty high enough for me! :) Especially the section with the 9/12 pitch. > I was thinking more of a 30X50 instead of 40X40. But I understand your > point about square being more efficient. What was your floorplan like? I uploaded our floorplan to: www.mountain-software.com/plan.jpg (It's actually the "furniture" plan we did when we started designing the house, but it shows the basics). We tried to avoid hallways as much as possible because they just waste space. I also took great effort to plan for moving furniture and whatnot into the various rooms. Every room is basically a straight shot in. No restricting turns or tight hallways to navigate. You can see a picture of our house at: www.mountain-software.com/house.jpg This was before we started putting the lawn in. > Any comments on brick vs vinyl siding? Vinyl is probably cheaper, brick probably longer lasting? Brick would need an extra bumpout in the foundation to support the weight. We opted for rough sawn plywood. It's basically like T-111 without the grooves. It functions as both siding and sheathing, which saved a lot of money. And, we can always add siding over it later if we choose to (though we're happy with the way it looks now). Anthony >We opted for rough sawn plywood. It's basically like T-111 without the > grooves. It functions as both siding and sheathing, which saved a lot of > money. And, we can always add siding over it later if we choose to (though > we're happy with the way it looks now). I like the way it looks. How long does that stuff last? >> We opted for rough sawn plywood. It's basically >> like T-111 without the grooves. > I like the way it looks. How long does that stuff last? It's regular plywood with a rough texture. Thinner sheets are commonly used for soffets and whatnot, but I used the 5/8" thick stuff for our sheathing/siding. I suspect it will last as long as any other wood as long as it is maintained. I'm assuming it would have the same longevity as T-111, and there are numerous apartments and duplexes in our area that have been around at least 50 years with that stuff. We applied Behr's "Redwood Tone" Semi-Opaque stain directly to the plywood siding. I suspect we'll have to reapply it every 5-10 years or so (Our garage has the same siding and stain, and is almost 5 years old now. It still looks as good as the house). Anthony > >> We opted for rough sawn plywood. It's basically > >> like T-111 without the grooves. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > garage has the same siding and stain, and is almost 5 years old now. It > still looks as good as the house). I live in a 50 year old house and I own 6 others that are pushing 50 and I would urge you to consider a good 3 coat stucco. The paint job on my house is about 15 years old and is just now showing signs (slight chalking) of needing a new paint job. Any kind of wood siding is a pain as you are always chipping paint and repainting. There are lots of 100+ year old homes with stucco coating. SignatureRoger Shoaf About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then they come up with this striped stuff. >>>>We opted for rough sawn plywood. It's basically >>>>like T-111 without the grooves. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > There are lots of 100+ year old homes with stucco coating. Depends on your climate. There aren't a lot of stucco houses around where I live (northern PA) and the ones that do exist don't hold up to our winters very well. Matt > If you wanted to build the lowest cost possible 1,500 SF home (looks > don't matter), but it needs to last for 50 years, how would you build [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Any ideas would be appreciated! Probably hard to beat a block wall house with a brick exterior for longevity and low maintenance. A stud wall house with vinyl siding will last 50 years if the siding and windows are installed properly, but may not last 20 years if done the way most builders build these days. I'd consider ICF construction as well. Matt >> If you wanted to build the lowest cost possible 1,500 SF home (looks >> don't matter), but it needs to last for 50 years, how would you build [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Matt I'm sitting in a balloon frame house built 120 years ago as a summer cottage. Interior bearing walls were 2x3's, 2x8 joists at 20" spanned 14'. House has 3 stories facing the North Atlantic 400' away, shakes all winter during storms (until this month). It was "winterized" in 1891. Wood shingles on walls and asphalt on roof. No rot, and frankly the quality of construction was terrible. Yes we are spending money fixing it up, but it is 120 years old and had rough use. Any house that is built to modern codes and roofed, ventilated, and FLASHED correctly will last as long or longer. I don't see where you guys get 20 year life cycles or even 50 year cycles. A mile from my house is a wood house built in 1637 in good shape. I've been in wood post and beam, thatch roofed houses in the UK built 700 years ago. After 40+ years as an Architect, I am positive that proper flashing and conducting the water away from the structure is the first consideration for longevity. BTW a concrete block house in a climate as wet as he said would leak like a sieve (particularly if rain is wind blown) without either a siloxane (sp?)coating renewed every few years, or better, 2 withes of masonry, with insulation between, reinforcing per codes, waterproofing the outer side of the interior (structural) wythe, and clear weeps 24" oc. to the exterior. EDS What does everyone think abt A frames? > What does everyone think abt A frames? It seems like they would waste a lot of material. > What does everyone think abt A frames? They are ugly and on top of that are a great waste of space. And they are a pain to re-roof to top it all off! :-) Matt > After 40+ years as an Architect, I am positive that proper flashing and > conducting the water away from the structure is the first consideration for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > outer side of the interior (structural) wythe, and clear weeps 24" oc. to > the exterior. I talked to a builder in the area and he also recommends wood. I was thinking about a simple metal gable roof with a large overhang for a front and back porch. That way there won't be any flashing, right? >>After 40+ years as an Architect, I am positive that proper flashing and >>conducting the water away from the structure is the first consideration for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > thinking about a simple metal gable roof with a large overhang for a > front and back porch. That way there won't be any flashing, right? Only if you don't have any windows or doors on the exterior walls. Or roof penetrations for plumbing vents, chimneys, etc. Matt What abt an earth berm home? With a south exposure? > What abt an earth berm home? With a south exposure? Might be a little damp in my neck of the woods. >> What abt an earth berm home? With a south exposure? > >Might be a little damp in my neck of the woods. Where you located? Just curious > >> What abt an earth berm home? With a south exposure? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Just curious North Alabama. 57" of rain a year. >> >> What abt an earth berm home? With a south exposure? >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >North Alabama. 57" of rain a year. Ahh...... I see So is it generally a bad idea to do the earth berm thing for humid place? I live in north Missouri and it gets pretty wet and hind in the summer time up here as well Pretty cold and wet in the winter tho > So is it generally a bad idea to do the earth berm > thing for humid place? I'm assuming. I don't really know for sure. I would assume the type of fill used and the drainage would effect the success of a Earth Berm house more than the amount of rainfall per year. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) > So is it generally a bad idea to do the earth berm > thing for humid place? I'm assuming. I don't really know for sure. > I would assume the type of fill used and the drainage would effect the > success of a Earth Berm house more than the amount of rainfall per year. If you built this house where I live, you'd be soaked! :) http://www.undergroundhomes.com/home.html >If you built this house where I live, you'd be soaked! :) > >http://www.undergroundhomes.com/home.html yep but it sure is cool tho! > >If you built this house where I live, you'd be soaked! :) > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > but it sure is cool tho! I just got an idea. I started off wanting a 2 story house. Then I changed my mind and had pretty much settled on a 1 story concrete block house. I was just talking to someone about how my house would be located on a hill and the front would be about 2 feet off the ground but the back would be 7-9 feet off the ground due to the slope. He said if that is the case you might as well build a basement. Then he said you could even put in a finished basement. So now I'm back thinking about a 2 story house with a the 1st story half underground. What do you think about that? ... > I just got an idea. I started off wanting a 2 story house. Then I > changed my mind and had pretty much settled on a 1 story concrete block [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > What do you think about that? Doh! :) Walk-about basements are almost ubiquitous in hilly country... Depending on how steep, can be fractional portion of "earth-berm". Can either be basement ranch, split level, or "near-traditional" 2-story layout amongst alternatives... > ... > > I just got an idea. I started off wanting a 2 story house. Then I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Can either be basement ranch, split level, or "near-traditional" 2-story > layout amongst alternatives... All things being equal, what do you think would be the cost per square foot differences between a traditional 1 story, vs 2 story, vs a "partially underground 2 story"? By the way is there a name for a "partially underground 2 story"? Thanks! Around here they call them a Raised Ranch. Usually the front door opens to a landing. Four steps up to the house floor, four steps down to the lower area/basement. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) By the way is there a name for a "partially underground 2 story"? Thanks! In a previous post Joe says... > Around here they call them a Raised Ranch. > Usually the front door opens to a landing. > Four steps up to the house floor, four steps down to the lower > area/basement. These are known in the Pacific NW as "split-level" houses if the access is half a story down and half a story up from the entry. Very common construction and usually rectangular in shape with straight gable roof. Thousands were built in the late 50's and early 60's SignatureBob Morrison, PE, SE R L Morrison Engineering Co Structural & Civil Engineering Poulsbo WA Around here a Raised Ranch was only 2 levels. There was 8' difference from the lower level to the upper level. A split level around here had at least 3 levels. Each level only about 4' above the next lower level. Garage and family room on lowest level. Living room and kitchen on next level. Bedrooms on third level. A large house might have a 4th level (over kitchen & living room) with more bedrooms. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) These are known in the Pacific NW as "split-level" houses if the access is half a story down and half a story up from the entry. Very common construction and usually rectangular in shape with straight gable roof. Thousands were built in the late 50's and early 60's -- Bob Morrison, PE, SE R L Morrison Engineering Co Structural & Civil Engineering Poulsbo WA > Then he said >you could even put in a finished basement. So now I'm back thinking >about a 2 story house with a the 1st story half underground. > >What do you think about that? Frankly Id make it one story only and berm it. Id downsize my possessions so I didn't need as much room.... i.e. could live with one story (bermed) only > I just got an idea. I started off wanting a 2 story house. Then I > changed my mind and had pretty much settled on a 1 story concrete block [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you could even put in a finished basement. So now I'm back thinking > about a 2 story house with a the 1st story half underground. A sloped site is a very important detail, I had assumed you were building on a simple flat site... If the site slopes like that, you'll need to build the foundation 7-9 feet tall anyway. Since you're already going to that trouble and expense, you might as well make the space livable (or a garage under the house if the road is on the downhill side). With that in mind, you've now doubled your square footage. This might allow you to shrink the footprint of the house, which would reduce costs further. For instance, if you were planning a 40x40 single story, you could now build a 20x40 two story. Or, you could just enjoy having the extra space... On the other hand, depending on the site, it might be just as easy to excavate the site to make it level? Our property wasn't as sloped as yours, but I chose to level the building area rather than trying to build into the hillside. It made construction cheaper and easier and gave us a nice yard around the house. Anthony > > I just got an idea. I started off wanting a 2 story house. Then I > > changed my mind and had pretty much settled on a 1 story concrete block [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > might as well make the space livable (or a garage under the house if the > road is on the downhill side). Road is on the uphill side. I'm still leaning towards the simple 1 story. As someone mentioned the wiring and duct work is much easier. > With that in mind, you've now doubled your square footage. This might allow > you to shrink the footprint of the house, which would reduce costs further. > For instance, if you were planning a 40x40 single story, you could now > build a 20x40 two story. Or, you could just enjoy having the extra space... That was my first thought. Then I started thinking about the details. I'd have to have everything properly sloped and drained. I'd have to have the blocks waterproofed. I'd have to run the wiring and ductwork between floors. No windows on one side of the first floor. Stairs which take up space. > On the other hand, depending on the site, it might be just as easy to > excavate the site to make it level? Our property wasn't as sloped as yours, > but I chose to level the building area rather than trying to build into the > hillside. It made construction cheaper and easier and gave us a nice yard > around the house. I would think it would cost more to level the land, compared to building a tall foundation, but that's a guess. One thing I like about having a tall foundation is the back porch will be up off the ground, I think it will have the appearance of being more elevated. My back yard is very scenic, it has a pond and woods in the background. > I'd have to have everything properly sloped and drained. I'd have to > have the blocks waterproofed. I'd have to run the wiring and ductwork > between floors. No windows on one side of the first floor. Stairs > which take up space. All of which are reasons we opted for a single story... :) > I would think it would cost more to level the land, compared to > building a tall foundation I haven't seen the site, of course, but I would think it would only cost a few hundred dollars for excavation, and thousands for an 8' high foundation? But, that's just my guess too... :) Maybe you could break it halfway... Level the site about 4 feet down, then only make the foundation 4' high? Just a thought. > One thing I like about having a tall foundation is the back porch > will be up off the ground Which will require longer stairs to access, more structural bracing, etc. Everything is a tradeoff... Anthony ... > Which will require longer stairs to access, more structural bracing, etc. > Everything is a tradeoff... Which, for OP, is what architects are for (amongst other useful functions)... >> After 40+ years as an Architect, I am positive that proper flashing and >> conducting the water away from the structure is the first consideration [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > thinking about a simple metal gable roof with a large overhang for a > front and back porch. That way there won't be any flashing, right? Flashing of some sort is still required over any protrusions, windows, and doors. Metal roofs are great, but more expensive than asphalt. I've used them on many commercial jobs and have a few still looking good after 30+ years. Make sure that the finish is based on Kinar 500 fluorocarbons. Several manufacturers supply to roof manufacturers. Also be sure to vent the attic space well. Continuous soffit vents and ridge vents. Metal roof manufacturers make venting ridge caps to match their roofs. I always worry about wind blown rain (perhaps because I am near to the open sea), however flashing (even 30# building paper) is a cheap way to avoid that first leak. EDS >>>If you wanted to build the lowest cost possible 1,500 SF home (looks >>>don't matter), but it needs to last for 50 years, how would you build [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > mile from my house is a wood house built in 1637 in good shape. I've been in > wood post and beam, thatch roofed houses in the UK built 700 years ago. The trouble is that most homes built today aren't properly roofed, ventilated and flashed. Many are built too tight and without proper ventilation a house can mold, mildew and then rot in very short order. Old houses that let the breeze blow through summer and winter weren't very energy efficient, but they definitely didn't support mold and mildew the way many modern homes do. > After 40+ years as an Architect, I am positive that proper flashing and > conducting the water away from the structure is the first consideration for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > outer side of the interior (structural) wythe, and clear weeps 24" oc. to > the exterior. A properly built brick clad concrete block wall won't leak like a sieve and won't even be damp. Matt > The trouble is that most homes built today aren't properly roofed, > ventilated and flashed. Many are built too tight and without proper > ventilation a house can mold, mildew and then rot in very short order. > Old houses that let the breeze blow through summer and winter weren't > very energy efficient, but they definitely didn't support mold and > mildew the way many modern homes do. I totally agree. I cringe when I read about SIP construction where you need an air exchanger, just to keep from breathing toxic fumes all day. I'd rather have a smaller house that takes advantage of either shade or sun depending on where you live to keep costs down. > A properly built brick clad concrete block wall won't leak like a sieve > and won't even be damp. I lived in a block house in florida for 8 years and never had a problem with leaking. I would build with block, but it's very uncommon around here. I've still got around 6 months to a year before I save enough to build. I may still go with block. > I totally agree. I cringe when I read about SIP construction where you > need an air exchanger, just to keep from breathing toxic fumes all day. Here in Washington State, we are required by code to have a fresh air ventilation system. Because we have electric wall heaters, we installed windows that have little screened vents at the top. Then we have a small fan in our laundry room (a Panasonic bathroom fan) that runs most of the day to exhaust the air outside. While it seemed like a hassle when we were building, it really wasn't that much additional expense, and our house always has nice fresh air inside. I was worried about the heating bills with that unheated outside air being brought in all the time, but the bill for our 1456 sq ft house is half what it was in our 784 sq ft mobile. It's a small volume of air being brought in, but it makes a big difference in air quality. Anthony >>>>If you wanted to build the lowest cost possible 1,500 SF home (looks >>>>don't matter), but it needs to last for 50 years, how would you build [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Matt Agreed, EDS > > After 40+ years as an Architect, I am positive that proper flashing and > > conducting the water away from the structure is the first consideration for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > A properly built brick clad concrete block wall won't leak like a sieve > and won't even be damp. My house in FL was block and I think it was just painted on the outside. I lived there for 8 years and never painted it and it never leaked. Except for the wood addition to the house. How difficult is building with block? Does it take a lot of experience? 95% of the buildings around here are stick frame with a raised foundation, so at least they know how to build the bottom part! What's the trickiest part to building with block? I would think it would be the windows and doors. Commercial building are block, maybe I could find a commercial builder to build my house? > How difficult is building with block? > Does it take a lot of experience? I read about a technique a few years ago called "Surface Bonded Block". You basically set the first row in mortar and get everything level. Then you dry stack the remaining blocks. The inside and outside surfaces are then parged with a cement mixture containing fiberglass fibers. From what I read it was fast, simple enough for do-it-yourselfers, and was supposed to be stronger than regular mortared construction. You might research it a bit of you're really wanting a block house. Anthony >>>After 40+ years as an Architect, I am positive that proper flashing and >>>conducting the water away from the structure is the first consideration for [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > How difficult is building with block? Does it take a lot of experience? I guess it depends on how you define difficult. It isn't difficult with regard to basic techique and it isn't rocket science. It is difficult physically and if you drive a computer like I do now, it will tear up your hands for the first few days. It doesn't take a lot of experience to lay block well, but it takes lots of experience to lay block quickly. I did the foundation walls for a 2.5 car garage I built at my last house. The garage was 28x27 and required 7 course of block. It took me more than two weeks of evenings and weekends. I'd mix up one batch of mortar and lay 12-15 blocks and was about done. I'd do several batches on Saturdays. I'm guessing a pro would have knocked of this job in a day or two. My work was very good and I got many compliments on it, but I was slower than molasses in January. I'd definitely try to find a decent mason to teach you a few of the tricks and then lay a couple of practice walls (maybe make an incinerator or some small structure) before starting on a house. I also used Durawall (sp?) every other course and vertical rebar fully grouted about every 4' and at every corner and door opening. I sold the house 10 years after building the garage and there wasn't a crack in the wall (other than very find shrinkage cracks) and nothing had shifted. > 95% of the buildings around here are stick frame with a raised > foundation, so at least they know how to build the bottom part! What's > the trickiest part to building with block? I would think it would be > the windows and doors. Commercial building are block, maybe I could > find a commercial builder to build my house? It probably makes sense to stay with what is common in the area. Might make it easier to sell the house later. A well built stick frame will last a long, long time. Just make sure they properly flash the roof, windows and doors and properly apply whatever siding you choose. Personally, after my experience with precast concrete walls, I'd use that in a heartbeat. Matt > It probably makes sense to stay with what is common in the area. Might > make it easier to sell the house later. A well built stick frame will > last a long, long time. Just make sure they properly flash the roof, > windows and doors and properly apply whatever siding you choose. > Personally, after my experience with precast concrete walls, I'd use > that in a heartbeat. This may be a stupid question, but is there a way to build a house without having any protusions thru the roof? For example the vents for the bathrooms. Can those be built in a way to keep them from sticking thru the roof. I'm just worried about seams. I know a "properly" built seam won't leak but it makes me nervous. I used to have a 25' sailboat that I kept in a harbor. The first thing I did when I bought the boat was fiberglass over the hole under the waterline. It was for discharging waste but I was afraid it would leak. My friend, who also owned a sailboat, gave me a hard time and told me "a properly designed one way valve will never leak". His boat sunk, the valve failed ... :) > is there a way to build a house without having any protusions > thru the roof? For example the vents for the bathrooms. You could probably run a vent out the peak of a gable end wall, though I'm not sure how easy it would be to find wall flashing for that, or what the inspector might think of it. Like you, I wanted to minimize roof penetrations. So, I combined all plumbing vents into a single 3" vent that penetrates the roof. I located the vent pipe as close to the peak as possible to minimize the amount of water that would be running down the roof to the vent flashing. I installed a large 3 inch "trunk" line throughout the attic and connected my 2" vents to that trunk line (everything properly sloped of course). The inspector told me it was overkill, but he said it should work really well. For the roof venting, I used continuous ridge vents. This provides better venting and I thought they were less likely to leak than those "mushroom" vents. If you provide enough vent area, you could probably vent out the gable ends and eliminate the roof vents entirely. But, that assumes you have an attic space for air to move through (I have cathedral ceilings). Anthony >>It probably makes sense to stay with what is common in the area. Might >>make it easier to sell the house later. A well built stick frame will [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > owned a sailboat, gave me a hard time and told me "a properly designed > one way valve will never leak". His boat sunk, the valve failed ... :) Sure, it can be designed that way, but I doubt it will pass code anywhere in the USA. I wouldn't worry about it. Plumbing penetrations with the molded flashings are pretty reliable and will likely last as long as the roof itself, unless you use slate roofing. Matt > How difficult is building with block? Does it take a lot of experience? > 95% of the buildings around here are stick frame with a raised > foundation, so at least they know how to build the bottom part! What's > the trickiest part to building with block? I would think it would be > the windows and doors. Commercial building are block, maybe I could > find a commercial builder to build my house? Check out this guy: http://www.texasmusicforge.com/gimmeshelter.html He built his house by himself even making a ferrocement roof. SignatureRoger Shoaf About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then they come up with this striped stuff. There have been many good opinions put forth, but I'll throw in my two cents as well. I'm not sure I agree that one story is better than two from an economic standpoint. I will however agree it helps the aged avoid excercise :~) For a given square footage, a two story house has much less roof area. This means fewer roof trusses, less sheathing, less roofing material, less fascia, shorter gutters, etc. Of course some of this is replaced with materials for the stairs and floor system. It's a tough call from a labor/materials standpoint which one is better. A second consideration is energy effeciency. Two stories means less insulation to buy, and less area to loose heat through. Also if planned carefully, any ductwork can be kept in the conditioned spaces so leakage and thermal losses don't just blow out the roof vents. All this can mean a less expensive house to build and heat. This being said, for several reasons I happen like slab-on-grade one-story houses. Having an attic over most areas makes retrofitting wiring and other systems fairly straightforward. Try that in a two story. A large slab-on-grade makes for a pretty affordable floor system. If you happen to be thinking about hydronic heat, that makes it an even better choice. And it's nice not to worry about mice getting into the slab. Of course, you could always do like me and build a little second story over a big anything-but-square first story. That way you make sure to get the worst of all worlds!... Finally, I agree with the advice to put on wide eves. It will cut down on wear and tear on your siding, windows, etc. If your in a sunny localle, they admit the low winter sun, but shade you from the high summer sun. If you're going to be ther a while, you might want to consider something other than vinyl siding. It looks crappy when it first goes up and goes downhill from there. If you can afford it, go with Hardiplank - now that's a 50-year siding that looks great. Good luck on your project. Richard Johnson PE Camano Island, WA try this http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4124 > If you wanted to build the lowest cost possible 1,500 SF home (looks > don't matter), but it needs to last for 50 years, how would you build [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Any ideas would be appreciated! The best thing you can build is a concrete block and stucco house with a tile or slate roof. Very simple very long lasting and very good looking. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.