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Semi OT: Electric fences

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Jeßus - 11 Feb 2010 07:00 GMT
Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?

I recently set up my own electric fence in one paddock, for a mix of
creatures ranging from chooks (yes, chooks!) to sheep and goats. Years
ago I managed an avocado farm, which also ran some cattle - I used to
maintain that electric fence, so have some previous basic experience
with them, besides having a good grounding (no pun intended) in
electronics.

Anyway, to cut a long story short - I've found both fences to be largely
ineffective at keeping creatures either in or out.

The fence does actually work - it sure hurts like hell when I touch the
fence... much moreso than the previous cattle fence I mentioned.

I'm certain its set up properly, I'm running the fence parallel to the
creek, with a copper earth stake in moist ground, plus alternating
live/earth wires on the insulated posts (no less than 8 strands). And
yet - the dog, chooks, sheep and goat couldn't give a rat's bum about
the fence.

I've given up on mine and putting up a proper wire fence. My trees can't
take much more of the gourmet goats... Also beginning to dawn on my why
there are so many second hand units advertised...

So, back to my question: I'd like to hear of your experiences with
electric fences - both pro and con.

Cheers.
rainman@mailinator.com - 11 Feb 2010 08:04 GMT


> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> So, back to my question: I'd like to hear of your experiences with
> electric fences - both pro and con.

Wet the ground around it to ensure a good earth and see if that fixes things.
David Hare-Scott - 11 Feb 2010 08:52 GMT
>> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Wet the ground around it to ensure a good earth and see if that fixes
> things.

I use them extensively for horses and cattle and a single wire about 60cm
high works fine day or night, wet or dry.  Once they get used to it I only
turn the power on if there is a strong motivation for them to challenge it.

I have no experience with goats but I know an old arab proverb, "If you have
no troubles get a goat".

David
anm - 11 Feb 2010 11:22 GMT
>>> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> David

And you've got jonno ;-P
Do they equate?
Keep smiling
anm
rainman@mailinator.com - 11 Feb 2010 11:43 GMT
 
> I have no experience with goats but I know an old arab proverb, "If you have
> no troubles get a goat".

The English have a similar saying.

"If you have no troubles get a wife".
Jeßus - 11 Feb 2010 20:25 GMT
:>> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
:>>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
:I have no experience with goats but I know an old arab proverb, "If you have
:no troubles get a goat".

Indeed :)

I have two miniature goats at the moment - both sisters.
The g/f nicknamed them the "Houdini Sisters". Very appropriate name...
but they do good work on the blackberries and are pretty cute into the
bargain.

I had a normal full sized goat previously, and she was easier to manage
in the sense that she couldn't sneak through any tiny gap in the fences.

Not these girls though - they can get through almost anything! Had to
revert back to collars because they could squirm out of their body
harnesses somehow.
Jeßus - 11 Feb 2010 20:16 GMT
:> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
:>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
:
:Wet the ground around it to ensure a good earth and see if that fixes things.

It rained yesterday arvo - I should have taken the dog down there to
give it another test. Thing is, it certainly works on me even on dry
days, even when wearing work boots.

I think I'm going to have to accept that I'll be putting up another
permanent wire mesh fence in the near future :)
tony@altavista.com - 13 Feb 2010 01:34 GMT
>:> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
>:>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>It rained yesterday arvo - I should have taken the dog down there to
>give it another test.

But what would the RSPA say if they knew you're using your dogs to
test an electrical circuit ???

Is that the "Abu Grab"  (sp.) of Tasmania  ??

>Thing is, it certainly works on me even on dry
>days, even when wearing work boots.
>
>I think I'm going to have to accept that I'll be putting up another
>permanent wire mesh fence in the near future :)
FarmI - 13 Feb 2010 13:49 GMT
> :> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
> :>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> give it another test. Thing is, it certainly works on me even on dry
> days, even when wearing work boots.

The way to test it without touching it is to get a bit of green grass, put
the tip of the grass on the hot wire whilst holding the other end and then
move it inwards towards the wire till you feel the pulsing.
Trish Brown - 11 Feb 2010 08:12 GMT
> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Cheers.

I've used electric fences to keep horses and cattle in (and out) with no
problems! In my Pony Club days, we used a portable, battery-operated
fence when we went to jamborees and gymkhanas overnight. The only vital
thing was that you had a good ground (we used a big shifting spanner or,
in a pinch, an old screwdriver thrust into the earth). We never had an
escape or bad experience. One Zone jamboree, a herd of cattle managed to
get into the Pony Club camp and went stampeding among the tents,
knocking them over left and right. We had pitched our tent in the centre
of our electric fenced area with the ponies and slept like logs while
everyone else had to rebuild their camps.

I know our dogs (Rough Collies and Border Collies) paid utterly no
attention to the fence. Once they worked out that it bit, they'd just
avoid it by slinking down on the ground and slithering under the wire. I
can't imagine sheep or goats would pay much attention either, since
goats are canny and would learn to avoid it, same as the dogs. Sheep are
thickly insulated with wool, so I s'pose that would dull the sensation a
bit for them. I've never kept sheep or goats, but everyone I know who
does uses cyclone wire fencing or barbed wire. I don't imagine sheep and
goats are as inquisitive as cattle or horses are, and can't see them
using their noses or lips to investigate things and hence get shocked.

The one down side of electric fences IME, is that you have to be
*incredibly* careful where you set one up and make sure it's LOUDLY
labelled if it's likely to be contacted by the public. If anyone with a
pacemaker or heart condition managed to take hold of your fence, you
might have charges to answer!

Some years ago, we experienced a few occasions of having the petrol
milked out of our car overnight. I suggested putting up the electric
fence to deter the evildoers, but the attending copper nearly fainted.
He told me that would equate to 'setting a man-trap' and would leave me
open to all sorts of criminal charges.

HTH,

Signature

Trish Brown {|:-}

Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Rod Speed - 11 Feb 2010 18:37 GMT
>> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> Sheep are thickly insulated with wool, so I s'pose that would dull
> the sensation a bit for them.

Not with their snouts.

> I've never kept sheep or goats, but
> everyone I know who does uses cyclone wire fencing or barbed wire.

I've used one with sheep, worked fine.

> I don't imagine sheep and goats are as inquisitive as cattle or horses
> are, and can't see them using their noses or lips to investigate
> things and hence get shocked.

They dont have any choice if they are trying to get past it.

And are too stupid to try slithering under it.

> The one down side of electric fences IME, is that you have to be
> *incredibly* careful where you set one up and make sure it's LOUDLY
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> He told me that would equate to 'setting a man-trap' and would leave
> me open to all sorts of criminal charges.

Cops dont have a clue about the most basic law.

I had one fool chuck a wobbly about me catching a crim with a surveillance camera.

The fool asked me where the signs were. They arent required in a domestic situation in NSW.
Jeßus - 11 Feb 2010 20:39 GMT
:> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
<snip>

:I've used electric fences to keep horses and cattle in (and out) with no
:problems! In my Pony Club days, we used a portable, battery-operated
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
:of our electric fenced area with the ponies and slept like logs while
:everyone else had to rebuild their camps.

Come to think of it, the only electric fences I see around here (which
are few and far between) are for horses. I think that says something...
:)

:I know our dogs (Rough Collies and Border Collies) paid utterly no
:attention to the fence. Once they worked out that it bit, they'd just
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
:goats are as inquisitive as cattle or horses are, and can't see them
:using their noses or lips to investigate things and hence get shocked.

I watched one of the goats yesterday checking out the fence - she was
actually chewing on the insulators AND the wire. From time to time she
was making contact with both live and neutral wires with no noticeable
effect. Sigh.

I would describe my goats as being both inquisitive, also alternating
between having severe ADD and yet paradoxically being very focused on
whatever has their attention at any given moment. Sheep otoh are...
well, sheep.

:The one down side of electric fences IME, is that you have to be
:*incredibly* careful where you set one up and make sure it's LOUDLY
:labelled if it's likely to be contacted by the public. If anyone with a
:pacemaker or heart condition managed to take hold of your fence, you
:might have charges to answer!

Yup. Not much chance of that happening where I am, fortunately.

:Some years ago, we experienced a few occasions of having the petrol
:milked out of our car overnight. I suggested putting up the electric
:fence to deter the evildoers, but the attending copper nearly fainted.
:He told me that would equate to 'setting a man-trap' and would leave me
:open to all sorts of criminal charges.

I was told the same thing (man trap) when I proposed somebody hook up
either a large capacitor or coil to their car body when they were having
some sort of similar problem to you. Mind you, your electric fence idea
would be a lot less harmful and safer :)
Anne Chambers - 11 Feb 2010 09:48 GMT
> So, back to my question: I'd like to hear of your experiences with
> electric fences - both pro and con.
>
> Cheers.

We tried an electric fence many years ago with goats - well-earthed, etc. etc. - the wretched animals laughed
at it.   Worked well on the dog (Border Collie Cross) though, until he worked out how to flatten himself under
it.  Worked extremely well with me when I forgot it was turned on.

Mind you, ordinary fences didn't work too well with the goats, either - if they found a hole they could get
their heads through, the rest of the goat - and then the whole flock - followed.

Signature

Anne Chambers
South Australia

anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

Jeßus - 11 Feb 2010 20:47 GMT
:> So, back to my question: I'd like to hear of your experiences with
:> electric fences - both pro and con.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
:Mind you, ordinary fences didn't work too well with the goats, either - if they found a hole they could get
:their heads through, the rest of the goat - and then the whole flock - followed.

You certainly need strong fences with goats. Even miniatures. I have a
chook pen in the same paddock, using your normal chicken wire.
The goats have discovered that not only do many yummy things exist
beyond that fence (eggs included!) - but that leaning hard/walking along
the chicken wire is a great way to get burrs out of their coats.

Suffice to say, the fence is in not so great shape anymore, and as you
mentioned - once there is a small hole - in they go :) So I'm also going
to have to re-do the chook pen with stronger wire as well.
anm - 11 Feb 2010 11:16 GMT
> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?

<snip>

> So, back to my question: I'd like to hear of your experiences with
> electric fences - both pro and con.
>
> Cheers.

Only experience we have had is with horse
Wired tape rolled through loops on fibreglass "posts"
No problems
Horses got the message quickly - ie after 2 or three sniffs
And or the odd forgetful moment swinging around too close to the tape.

Friends tell me they are not absolutely reliable for cattle
Particularly bulls
If there is a cow in season on the other side
The bulls forget where they are and concentrate on the end "game"
ie they go straight through the fence!

Best "human" story I have heard
Is from a friend whose family had a round yard set up for horses
An "old timer" visited the man of the operation mid winter
And in no uncertain terms suggested that electric fences were useless
To prove his point he grabbed the wire
And stated there was no effect

Friend's hubby suggested the the "old timer"
Dispense with his insulating rubber / wellington boots
And then grasp the wire

The "old timer" took off his boots
Wriggled his feet into the damp earth
And grabbed the wire

The end result was described to me as
The loudest explosion of flatulence ever heard
Followed by a stagger
And an apology ;-P

The other "human" / "feline story
Involves my then teenage son
We had to carry him into the house on a stretcher
He had split his sides laughing

Apparently one of our cats had been under the electric fence
And there was a broken wire in the tape
Which caused a short circuit "crackle"
The cat listened and watched for a while
And then leapt up to grab the wire

The weight of the cat of course
Caused the wire to sag
To the degree that its hind legs made contact with Mother Earth

The ruts in the earth under the wire
As the cat tried to get traction
Were quite deep
And of course, it was sometime before
Said feline was again seen
And never again under that wire ;-P

As others have stated / insinuated, goats are, apparently, another story

Keep smiling
anm
Jeßus - 11 Feb 2010 20:56 GMT
:> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
:Horses got the message quickly - ie after 2 or three sniffs
:And or the odd forgetful moment swinging around too close to the tape.

Concensus seems to indicate the they work well on horses by the looks of
things.

:Friends tell me they are not absolutely reliable for cattle
:Particularly bulls
:If there is a cow in season on the other side
:The bulls forget where they are and concentrate on the end "game"
:ie they go straight through the fence!

Yep. The main animal problem for me on that avo farm was indeed the
bull. He'd be the one to render the electric fence useless - then the
rest would follow.

:Best "human" story I have heard
:Is from a friend whose family had a round yard set up for horses
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
:Followed by a stagger
:And an apology ;-P

Heh :)

:The other "human" / "feline story
:Involves my then teenage son
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
:Said feline was again seen
:And never again under that wire ;-P

I'd pay to see something like that, as much as I love cats :)

:As others have stated / insinuated, goats are, apparently, another story

Indeed...

I was highly sceptical that electric fences would work on chooks - but I
found quite a few references online claiming it works. Well, it sure
didnt work for me!

Anyway, lesson learned - I'm gong to fence off most of the creek
frontage (with a few gates added)so they still have access to water but
can't get across to the other side via the dam wall (no doubt illegal
but I didnt build it...) and bridge.

Cheers
FarmI - 13 Feb 2010 13:56 GMT
> :Friends tell me they are not absolutely reliable for cattle
> :Particularly bulls
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> bull. He'd be the one to render the electric fence useless - then the
> rest would follow.

We've had different experiences with bulls.  They certainly do test it
though and what a glorious sight that is.  They turn their rump to the fence
and then ease onto it very cautiously.  Once they know it's working, they
lose interest.

We have had them destroy gates though rather than go over the fence.  A gate
with a huge V shape right in the middle of it is a very disheartening sight
given how much more a gate costs than a bit of fencing wire.  We now have
electricity on certain gates too.
David Hare-Scott - 13 Feb 2010 22:11 GMT
>>> Friends tell me they are not absolutely reliable for cattle
>>> Particularly bulls
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> the fence and then ease onto it very cautiously.  Once they know it's
> working, they lose interest.

The smarter horses tend to test with their whiskers, a bit like the grass
blade trick.

David
Rod Speed - 11 Feb 2010 18:52 GMT
> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?

I did use one in a research operation at one time, to keep some sheep contained.

One very wet day the dog got bitten by it and he would never go anywhere near it again.

> I recently set up my own electric fence in one paddock, for a mix of
> creatures ranging from chooks (yes, chooks!) to sheep and goats. Years
> ago I managed an avocado farm, which also ran some cattle - I used to
> maintain that electric fence, so have some previous basic experience with
> them, besides having a good grounding (no pun intended) in electronics.

> Anyway, to cut a long story short - I've found both fences to
> be largely ineffective at keeping creatures either in or out.

Ours worked fine with the sheep.

> The fence does actually work - it sure hurts like hell when I touch
> the fence... much moreso than the previous cattle fence I mentioned.

> I'm certain its set up properly, I'm running the fence parallel to the
> creek, with a copper earth stake in moist ground, plus alternating
> live/earth wires on the insulated posts (no less than 8 strands). And
> yet - the dog, chooks, sheep and goat couldn't give a rat's bum about
> the fence.

Bet the dog will when its very wet.

> I've given up on mine and putting up a proper wire fence. My trees
> can't take much more of the gourmet goats... Also beginning to
> dawn on my why there are so many second hand units advertised...

> So, back to my question: I'd like to hear of your experiences with
> electric fences - both pro and con.

They arent all that effective when its very dry with some animals.

I'd be amazed if they worked with chooks, they're too well insulated.

They work with sheep because of their snouts.

Never bothered the dog normally, presumably it could
detect the fence well before it shocked him in dry weather.
Jeßus - 11 Feb 2010 21:03 GMT
:> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
:
:I did use one in a research operation at one time, to keep some sheep contained.
:
:One very wet day the dog got bitten by it and he would never go anywhere near it again.

Wish my Blue Heeler would get bit with my electric fence. Then again,
he's crazy enough that he just might like it.

<snip>

:They arent all that effective when its very dry with some animals.

Yep. It has been pretty dry here, even though the fence runs parallel to
the creek and about 30ft away, perhaps the geology/dryness is too much.
But that is why I also ran neutral wires along with the live wires -
just for added effectiveness. The ground stake is definitely well
earthed beside the creek!

:I'd be amazed if they worked with chooks, they're too well insulated.

Yeah, as mentioned previously, I was pretty sceptical that the fence
would work on chooks. But I came across plenty of info online indicating
that they can work. So much for that :)

:They work with sheep because of their snouts.
:
:Never bothered the dog normally, presumably it could
:detect the fence well before it shocked him in dry weather.
Rod Speed - 11 Feb 2010 23:27 GMT
> Rod Speed rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com wrote

>>> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?

>> I did use one in a research operation at one time, to keep some sheep contained.

>> One very wet day the dog got bitten by it and he would never go anywhere near it again.

> Wish my Blue Heeler would get bit with my electric fence.

It shouldnt be that hard to organise after a very wet stretch etc.

> Then again, he's crazy enough that he just might like it.

Never seen a dog that stupid.

>> They arent all that effective when its very dry with some animals.

> Yep. It has been pretty dry here, even though the fence runs parallel
> to the creek and about 30ft away, perhaps the geology/dryness is too
> much. But that is why I also ran neutral wires along with the live
> wires - just for added effectiveness. The ground stake is definitely
> well earthed beside the creek!

Yeah, but some animals are just too well insulated.

>> I'd be amazed if they worked with chooks, they're too well insulated.

> Yeah, as mentioned previously, I was pretty sceptical that
> the fence would work on chooks. But I came across plenty
> of info online indicating that they can work. So much for that :)

It might work where its a lot wetter than we have here most of the time.

>> They work with sheep because of their snouts.

>> Never bothered the dog normally, presumably it could
>> detect the fence well before it shocked him in dry weather.
FarmI - 13 Feb 2010 13:43 GMT
> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?

They bloody hurt like buggery when you touch them!!!!!

> I recently set up my own electric fence in one paddock, for a mix of
> creatures ranging from chooks (yes, chooks!) to sheep and goats. Years
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> So, back to my question: I'd like to hear of your experiences with
> electric fences - both pro and con.

Well ours works to keep the bulls where they are supposed to be and to keep
the neighbours bulls away from our cows

I can't recal ever seeing one on places that run sheep though - I would have
thought that all that wool would be an insulator but really havent' got a
clue.

I know that there are soem purpose built chook electric fences but they've
been in a grid shape like sheep/goat wire.

You've posed and interestign question.  Will be most interested to read the
responses.
Rod Speed - 13 Feb 2010 17:31 GMT
>> Just wondering what your experiences have been with electric fences?
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> I can't recal ever seeing one on places that run sheep though - I would have thought that all that wool would be an
> insulator

They work because their snouts arent that wooly.

> but really havent' got a clue.

> I know that there are soem purpose built chook electric fences but
> they've been in a grid shape like sheep/goat wire.
>
> You've posed and interestign question.  Will be most interested to
> read the responses.
 
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